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Thread: Norris Hopper is average +

  1. #1
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    Norris Hopper is average +

    I'm surprised every time I see people ripping Hopper, I don't get it. He's above average, which means he's better than most of the players. He hustles and is cheap, why the complaining?

    3rd on AVG.
    6th -- OBP
    done well on SB
    scored a lot
    He doesn't have much power and his RBI's are low but his playing doesn't seem to deserve the ripping he gets, what's the beef?

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  3. #2
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    Hopper made some great catches in the OF last night. He's not a liability in CF from what I saw.

  4. #3
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    If he's gonna hit leadoff, he should be getting on base a lot more than he currently does. 6th on a team that's 10th in the league in OBP for a leadoff guy isn't so good. Maybe in the 7 or 8 spot, though.

    Plus, his 6th ranking in team OBP is behind:

    Dunn
    Griffey
    Hamilton

    I think he's a good Freel replacement. If he was 23 and doing this, I'd say we're on to something but he's 28. A good bench player and spot starter but not someone that should take ABs away from Hamilton (when's ready to come back).
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  5. #4
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    Yes, doing well and and a great Freel replacement, but no to take any of Hamilton's AB. I love Norris though. He has never got a shot and he shows he can hit and has some speed and can make the great catch. Nice bench guy IMO.
    And This One Belongs to the REDS!!!

  6. #5
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    In my mind, Hopper is pretty close to the definition of replacement level- below average bat (well below average in the corners) and roughly league average to slightly above average defensively depending upon whether he's in a corner or center field.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #6
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    Hopper has been terrific. He's a very good singles hitter, plays all three outfield spots pretty well, aggressive, runs the bases. His major drawback is that he doesn't walk much which keeps his OBP down.

    Next year, I'd like to see Hopper and Kessinger both on the Reds' bench. I think they will be and will continue to get a lot of playing time.

  8. #7
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    I have no problem with Norris Hopper and absolutely want him a part of the 2008 Reds.....but if he's your full-time starting whatever outfielder next season, that's not good.

    If he's a role playing, occasional starter, situational pinch hitter, late game defensive replacement, then he's being used properly. He brings great things to the table.....but we all know what Sparky used to say about a bench player....


    His drag bunts are great.....but EVENTUALLY, the rest of baseball is going to adjust to it and get him out when he does it......what does he do then?

  9. #8
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    For me the issue with Hopper being good concerns degree of good.

    If Hopper is considered a pleasant find who can add some speed, play adequate defense, fill-in in spurts and provide a much cheaper bench alternative than Ryan Freel, I'm all for Hopper assuming that role in 2008 with Freel's salary being moved and being applied to the pitching staff.

    OTOH, if the logic is that Hopper is an everyday OF who makes some one like Dunn expendable or Hamilton a bench player, that is something else completely. Hopper has very little extra base power and his production is based entirely on getting on base, applying a little pressure and scoring runs. Nothing wrong with that if it works. The problem is that Hopper's ability to get on base is almost completely dependent on his batting average (he doesn't walk much) and his batting average is too dependent on bloops, bunts and infield singles. I just don't see his game being sustainable over a full season. Eventually teams will take those bunts away and I just haven't seen enough "oomph" in his bat to make teams pay for it.

    I'm convinced that Hopper is a major leaguer and teams like the Reds need cheap help that can be effective off the bench, but lets not get carried away.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  10. #9
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    He could be a solid bench/utility player.... nothing more IMO.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  11. #10
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    Hopper is a good 4th-5th OF and nothing more.

    If he walked more, he could be a regular, but he never has, and likely never will.

  12. #11
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    Energy and low BA driven OB%, limited power + Defense + knowing what your role is = Norris Hopper and his ilk, use them, they have their roles, they are an important part of teh game..

    Don't overpay for them or decide that they will be the draft horses that pull your wagon, if you do look up Whitey Herzog's thoughts on Jack Clark.
    Last edited by westofyou; 08-12-2007 at 11:33 AM.

  13. #12
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    I think he could be feeling a little pressure to hit the ball and not take the walks, not a good thing but this is his first shot in the show. If he gets on base more often he's a keeper and a good platoon player. Good arm, good hustle and puts pressure on the infield with his bunt. You're right that's he's not a full time starter but he is a good back up. My question was why all the send Hopper back down talk. And a 6th OBP on a team like the Reds is a low number and a good point. How DO the Reds compare around the league in OBP? We know without looking how the relief pitching ranks, but I'm not sure where some of the other offensive numbers rank.

  14. #13
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    He has a career .642 career OPS in the minor leagues.

    If you want entertainment, hes a scrappy little dude who does some fun things. In between those fun things are lots and lots of outs, including an incredible amount of dp's for a little guy.

    If you want to win, pretty OK #5 outfielder.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  15. #14
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    He has a career .642 career OPS in the minor leagues.

    If you want entertainment, hes a scrappy little dude who does some fun things. In between those fun things are lots and lots of outs, including an incredible amount of dp's for a little guy.

    If you want to win, pretty OK #5 outfielder.
    Don't like using OPS for this type of player. He doesn't have any power so his OPS will always be low. I think Hopper's issue is that, to be a starter without power, you need a .380 type OBP, which he doesn't have.

    Agree he is a bench guy, but I think a pretty good one.

  16. #15
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    Re: Norris Hopper is average +

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Next year, I'd like to see Hopper and Kessinger both on the Reds' bench.
    I don't think Don's in baseball anymore but maybe he'd take the gig as infield coach. He was pretty good with the glove with the Cubbies. Or were you thinking of Keith, Don's son, who had a cup of coffee with the Reds in '93?

    Rem


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