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Thread: I am ready for a change.

  1. #1
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    I am ready for a change.

    How can this team possibly head into 2008 with the same basic pitching staff as it has in 2007 and hope to compete? It can't. That should be painfully obvious to everyone. The Reds have exactly one starter they can count on - Harang. If one is kind and includes Arroyo, that still leaves three spots that need to be filled. The bullpen is well - the bullpen. Atrocious. Aside from Weathers and Burton who can honestly be counted on? Bray perhaps. Coutlangus maybe. On a 12-man staff there are 3 solids, several maybes and a whole lot of refuse. Over the winter both Dunn and Griffey have to be moved. What is the point of continuing on with a slightly above-average offense, when the pitching is awful? This team's bats cannot overcome this team's pitching. In the minors there are two major league ready bats in Bruce and Votto. It would be a pipe-dream that they can replace Dunn and Griffey completely, but they both seem to be solid hitters. Trade Dunn and Griffey for pitching. Use the money saved in salary for pitching. Look under every rock for pitching. Ask Santa to bring pitching. This team absolutely can not go into the 2008 season without an overhaul of the pitching staff.

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  3. #2
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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    Good luck trading Dunn with a full no trade clause ::ughmamoru

  4. #3
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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    They can refuse to pick up his option and if someone else signs him, they'll get draft picks as compensation. Might end up being better considering no team was willing to pony up decent players/prospects in a trade for him anyway.

    I agree about the pitching staff. I've been saying it a long time.

    Trade Griffey (to Seattle maybe) and let Dunn walk (get draft picks). Use the saved money on pitching and count on your farm system to supply the position players you need. Phillips and Hamilton can be built around.
    Who's on first?

  5. #4
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggerd View Post
    Good luck trading Dunn with a full no trade clause ::ughmamoru
    Players have been known to waive their no-trade clause if offered a financial enticement.

  6. #5
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    I would build for 2009 when Homer and Johnny are both ready for the majors. Let all the young guys play and get rid of the old guys expect maybe Weathers. Once Griffey gets his 600th home run I'd probably start trying to trade him. Then sign Dunn long term.

    C- David Ross
    1st- Joey Votto
    2nd- Phillips
    SS- Gonzo (or trade Gonzo and put Kepp there?)
    3rd- Edwin
    LF- Dunn
    CF- Bruce
    RF- Hamilton

    Bench- Young Catcher, Freel, Hopper, Cantu, Lopez?

    Starting Rotation-
    Harang
    Arroyo
    Bailey
    Cueto
    Belisle

    Bullpen:
    Bray (Closer or set-up man)
    Burton (Other possibility for closer or set-up man)
    Coutlangus
    Salmon
    Weathers (7th Inning)
    Lizard?
    Dumatrait?
    Livingston?

    Get all your good young prospects a year with the big club and get the growing pains out of the way so in 2009 they'll be a serious contender.

    Not much change needed just give the young guns a chance to shine.
    Last edited by Degenerate39; 08-16-2007 at 08:02 PM.
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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    Lets pick up Scott Olsen maybe reunite him with Girardi

  8. #7
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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    Because we know how well that has worked out before

  9. #8
    The Future GoReds33's Avatar
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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    I see Hamilton being the center fielder next year, not Bruce. Bruce and him have similar speed, but hamilton has the arm to play center. Actually, I'll give Bruce the edge in speed. I think another offseason of conditioning would really help Hamiltons speed and baserunning.

  10. #9
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds33 View Post
    I see Hamilton being the center fielder next year, not Bruce. Bruce and him have similar speed, but hamilton has the arm to play center. Actually, I'll give Bruce the edge in speed. I think another offseason of conditioning would really help Hamiltons speed and baserunning.
    I just think it would be better for Hamilton if he played a less stressful position. It worked wonders for Griffey. I think they should just try to keep Hamilton's injuries down and right field would help.
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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by degenerate10 View Post
    I just think it would be better for Hamilton if he played a less stressful position. It worked wonders for Griffey. I think they should just try to keep Hamilton's injuries down and right field would help.
    Id agree if Hamilton's injuries were muscle related.

  12. #11
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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    I agree to some extent on what some of you are saying. I think that we should let Dunn go and get draft picks to help build a farm system. We have to do something to bring it back. There is not enough deph. Also I say we trade Griffey, but it probably won't happen until the deadline next year. That is when Bruce will propably make his debut and start in right for the next 10 years. Then with the money they save on Dunn, Milton, and Guardado, add some pitching help. Possibly a #3 starter and a power reliever. So I project by the end of next year our roster to look like this:

    C David Ross-Javier Valentin-Miguel Perez
    1B Joey Votto-Jorge Cantu
    2B Brandon Phillips-Jeff Keppinger-Jorge Cantu
    SS Alex Gonzalez-Jeff Keppinger-Pedro Lopez
    3B Jeff Keppinger-Edwin Encarnacion
    LF NEW GUY-Norris Hopper
    CF Josh Hamilton-Chris Dickerson
    RF Jay Bruce-Ryan Freel

    SP Aaron Harang
    SP Bronson Arroyo
    SP NEW GUY-LEFT HANDER
    SP Homer Bailey
    SP Johnny Cueto

    RP Jon Coutlangus
    RP Bill Bray
    RP NEW GUY-LEFT
    RP Tyler Pelland
    RP Jared Burton
    RP NEW GUY-RIGHT
    CP NEW GUY

  13. #12
    The Future GoReds33's Avatar
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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    I think he could get back to where he was 5 years ago with some solid weight training, and conditioning programs in the offseason.

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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    We have a number of relievers who have pitched well this year; we just need to get rid of some of our older relievers who no longer can pitch. I would hope Votto would be starting at first base by the start of next year and that Bruce can find an outfield spot. As for the starting pitching, I think Bailey will be ready to contribute at the start of next year and Livingston will be a good 5th starter. That leaves us to get one FA starter on a 1-2 year deal until Cueto is ready. I would like to see Brad Salmon, Marcus McBeth and Jon Couatlangas join Bray and Burton in the bullpen. We can have Weathers as he is the only older player who is actually effective.

  15. #14
    The Future GoReds33's Avatar
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    Re: I am ready for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    We have a number of relievers who have pitched well this year; we just need to get rid of some of our older relievers who no longer can pitch. I would hope Votto would be starting at first base by the start of next year and that Bruce can find an outfield spot. As for the starting pitching, I think Bailey will be ready to contribute at the start of next year and Livingston will be a good 5th starter. That leaves us to get one FA starter on a 1-2 year deal until Cueto is ready. I would like to see Brad Salmon, Marcus McBeth and Jon Couatlangas join Bray and Burton in the bullpen. We can have Weathers as he is the only older player who is actually effective.
    Lets get a good pitcher. I don't like fill ins. Lets get somebody who has a future, and could accomplish that future in Cincinnati. I doubt that pitcher is Carlos Zambrano. Maybe we could get somebody from Japan. Who knows?


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