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Thread: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

  1. #16
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Plus, he's probably too selfish and lazy to steal second base after he gets on.
    Makes all the routine posts.

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  3. #17
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    I guess it applies to Jr, Howard, Ortiz, Bonds, etc.
    Nah. It applies to none of them. All are smart enough to know that the potential damage is far more severe with them hitting away. Heck, the "shift" tells them exactly that opposing teams know that's exactly the case.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thatís over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.Ē
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  4. #18
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    I guess it applies to Jr, Howard, Ortiz, Bonds, etc.
    And don't forget the original in all of this: Ted Williams. Ted's response to the shift was "they ought to have taller men" 'cause he was going to hit it over their heads. Ty Cobb told Ted that if they'd used that shift on him he'd bat 1.000.

    There are instances that all of the players you mentioned should have laid down a bunt.

  5. #19
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsland View Post
    Plus, he's probably too selfish and lazy to steal second base after he gets on.
    I hear he carries a Game Boy Micro system in his back pocket to use when he gets on. He's not lazy. Just distracted.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thatís over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.Ē
    --Ted Williams

  6. #20
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    And don't forget the original in all of this: Ted Williams. Ted's response to the shift was "they ought to have taller men" 'cause he was going to hit it over their heads. Ty Cobb told Ted that if they'd used that shift on him he'd bat 1.000.

    There are instances that all of the players you mentioned should have laid down a bunt.
    Williams didn't beat the shift by bunting though....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #21
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Williams didn't beat the shift by bunting though....
    You are correct, sir. Here's Boudreau himself on the effectiveness of the shift he created in an effort to stop Williams:

    "It didn't bother Ted at ail," the former Cleveland stalwart <Boudreau> once said. "He just kept getting his base hits. He could hit to left field and did a couple of times. The Williams shift didn't bother Ted because he had an upper-cut swing and hit those sinkers over the infield. The Williams shift was a publicity stunt. I don't think it hurt his productivity at all."

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._82472897/pg_5
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thatís over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.Ē
    --Ted Williams

  8. #22
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsland View Post
    Plus, he's probably too selfish and lazy to steal second base after he gets on.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  9. #23
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    If Dunn were to bunt, he'd be nullifying all of his main strengths -- his power and his ability to work the count. He'd be giving the pitcher an easy AB, plus he'd be trading walks, extra base hits, and strikeouts for bunt singles and pop-up outs to the catcher and pitcher.

    And all the Dunn haters would accuse him of selfishly padding his batting average.
    I don't really understand the logic against him bunting to prevent the shift. We love Dunn because he can take a walk and produce a high on base percentage, so why is a strategic bunt offensive???
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  10. #24
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    I don't really understand the logic against him bunting to prevent the shift. We love Dunn because he can take a walk and produce a high on base percentage, so why is a strategic bunt offensive???
    IMHO, if it's a buntable pitch then it's a drivable pitch. Why waste a bunt on a pitch that he could drive somewhere? We like that he takes walks because those are pitches that he couldn't drive anyway. Again that's just the way I see it.

  11. #25
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Have you guys seen him try to bunt this year? He's been awful.

  12. #26
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    The question sort of reminds me of the old hypothetical, would it make sense to walk Babe Ruth every time up? (Substitute Barry Bonds for a more recent example.) It's generally accepted statistically that it's better to go ahead and pitch to him; even in his best season, Ruth's extra-base power wasn't as beneficial to the team as his never making an out would have been.

    If we make the assumption that Dunn could bunt safely against the shift any time he wants and it's simply a matter of choice, maybe he wouldn't be remiss to choose it. All that lost SLG would be nicely offset by the 1.000 OBP. Yes, the other team would gladly choose to nullify his home-run power; they might be making the wrong choice nonetheless.

    In reality, getting bunts down is not quite that easy, and Dunn is not a bat-control artist. He would get his share of easy singles but it would be nowhere near automatic, changing the calculus considerably.
    Not all who wander are lost

  13. #27
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeybro View Post
    My dad and I have talked about this for several years now. Both him and Griffey should be doing this to get on and start to destroy the shift IMHO.

    Should either of these power hitters be forced to bunt when their OBP is already light years higher than most others on the team?

    I guess I don't see the reasoning for them to waste their practice time on it.
    Last edited by TeamBoone; 08-21-2007 at 01:05 AM.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  14. #28
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    I don't really understand the logic against him bunting to prevent the shift. We love Dunn because he can take a walk and produce a high on base percentage, so why is a strategic bunt offensive???
    Bunting wouldn't necessarily produce a higher OBP. As IslandRed stated, bunts aren't as automatic as people assume. He would still make plenty of outs (pop-up bunt attempts, strikeouts due to bad bunt attempts). In addition, he would be effectively neutralizing his main asset -- power.

    Bunting would simply trade slugging for empty batting average. That's a bad trade off.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  15. #29
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I can remember several times that the team didn't need a HR and a bunt single would have helped the team a great deal.
    Ah, yes, the old rally-killing home run.

    I hate those.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  16. #30
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Things that make you go hmmmm (or Dunn is just weird)...

    Asking Dunn to bunt is like owning an S-2000 and doing nothing but driving it over speed bumps in a parking lot.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.


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