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Thread: Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

  1. #226
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Huge difference.
    Only if next season isn't as important to you as the future.

    If the Reds are correct about Votto's defense, then he basically projects as a guy who'll probably never be better than league average. While that has it's merits at league minimum, it's certainly not something that the Reds shouldn't look for ways to upgrade if possible.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  3. #227
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    Re: Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

    The more I read and research, the more I think the Reds are looking to trade Votto. Probably to an AL club (best fit) for pitching. However, I think they still hold out hope that he will improve his D.

    He's about at his HEIGHT of value - Minor League ALL-STAR and Futures games - but they seem reluctant to bring him up and/or commit to him being a starter anytime in the future. They obviously are not high on him - the "leaks" to the press some say are a "smokescreen", I say "a smokescreen to what?!" they should be praising him if they wanted to trade him, so by putting him down is it a ploy to get him to focus more on D? Perhaps.

    I also think that Dunn and Votto discussions ARE related, as the more I read and research, we Truly have an issue with all of the Left-Handed bats in the future of our team. Dunn, Jr, Hamilton, Bruce, Votto. Hatteberg. These guys are all solid hitter - against Righties, but NONE of them hits Lefties worth a lick. Currently our only two above-average Power Righties are Phillips, and EE. Both of them were similar last year, but BP took off this year while EE regressed.

    I don't think they can afford to part with EE and leave Keppinger/Freel/Hopper/Gonzo as their other Righty bats. Won't help in the long-run.

    In a PERFECT world, we'd have moved Dunn to 1B a year or so ago, so we could play Hamilton and Griffey/Bruce and a Freel/Hopper type in the OF.

    Here's an idea - can Keppinger play LF?!?
    2009:
    Hamilton - CF
    Keppinger - LF
    Phillips - 2B
    Dunn - 1B
    Bruce - CF
    EE - 3B
    Gonzo - SS
    Ross - C

    Bench - Freel, Hopper, Cantu, Lopez/Catcher/OF-er/whateva...

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS

  4. #228
    The Future GoReds33's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

    Keppinger can do everything!!!

  5. #229
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    I also think that Dunn and Votto discussions ARE related, as the more I read and research, we Truly have an issue with all of the Left-Handed bats in the future of our team. Dunn, Jr, Hamilton, Bruce, Votto. Hatteberg. These guys are all solid hitter - against Righties, but NONE of them hits Lefties worth a lick. Currently our only two above-average Power Righties are Phillips, and EE. Both of them were similar last year, but BP took off this year while EE regressed.
    Just coming to argue with you here....
    Jay Bruce vs lefties in AAA
    .283/.353/.587
    Jay Bruce vs lefties in A+
    .310/.354/.506
    Jay Bruce vs lefties in AA
    .286/.400/.619

    I wish a lot of guys couldn't hit lefties that well.

  6. #230
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    Re: Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Just coming to argue with you here....
    Jay Bruce vs lefties in AAA
    .283/.353/.587
    Jay Bruce vs lefties in A+
    .310/.354/.506
    Jay Bruce vs lefties in AA
    .286/.400/.619

    I wish a lot of guys couldn't hit lefties that well.
    You are correct. I actually didn't mean to include him in the "list" of guys who can't hit lefties. Primarily meant for our current roster, plus Votto.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS

  7. #231
    Member SMcGavin's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Votto's offensive value is going to be derived almost entirely by what he does against righties.... the wild card is whether his platoon split can carry his glove. At this point I can only trust the Reds assessment that he stinks defensively.
    Two questions:
    Where can I find minor league hitting splits?
    Do you think the Reds go into 2008 with Cantu as the right handed side of the 1B platoon?

  8. #232
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    Two questions:
    Where can I find minor league hitting splits?
    www.Minorleaguesplits.com
    www.firstinning.com
    www.minorleaguebaseball.com (only for current teams)

  9. #233
    Member SMcGavin's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Thanks! I actually use firstinning.com all the time, but I thought they only had home/away and monthly splits. Am I missing the LHP/RHP numbers? The other two look great.

    As for Votto's splits, I can see now why there is talk of platooning him. I will get to see the Bats when they come to Indy this Friday so I'm looking forward to getting a peek at him and Bruce first-hand. Looks like Ramon Ramirez will be starting, a guy I know nothing about.

  10. #234
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    Two questions:
    Where can I find minor league hitting splits?
    Do you think the Reds go into 2008 with Cantu as the right handed side of the 1B platoon?
    Doug nicely answered the split question.

    Concerning Cantu, we'd better hope that he was picked up expressly to be the RH half of the first base platoon because his glove has flamed out at every other infield spot he's played. Truthfully, even at first it'll be tough for his bat to overcome his defense.

    Really, assuming Gonzo isn't going anywhere, Keppinger might be the X factor that marginalizes Cantu. If the Reds decide Kepp beats out EE for 3b duties (which would be counter to my opinion), then EE would probably be a good candidate to platoon at first. If EE wins the 3b battle, then Kepp probably is a better option for the RH platoon role.

    It's probably pretty obvious that I'm of the opinion that Cantu's real value is strengthening the bench....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  11. #235
    Member SMcGavin's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Doug nicely answered the split question.

    Concerning Cantu, we'd better hope that he was picked up expressly to be the RH half of the first base platoon because his glove has flamed out at every other infield spot he's played. Truthfully, even at first it'll be tough for his bat to overcome his defense.

    Really, assuming Gonzo isn't going anywhere, Keppinger might be the X factor that marginalizes Cantu. If the Reds decide Kepp beats out EE for 3b duties (which would be counter to my opinion), then EE would probably be a good candidate to platoon at first. If EE wins the 3b battle, then Kepp probably is a better option for the RH platoon role.

    It's probably pretty obvious that I'm of the opinion that Cantu's real value is strengthening the bench....
    Yea, I'm assuming WK got Cantu specifically to be part of the 1B platoon, knowing Conine would be heading out shortly. I'd expect Keppinger to keep getting starts around the infield and not be tied to the 1B platoon. Even if he doesn't have an opening day starting spot, something will open up over the infield at some point during the season. Honestly I'd rather Gonzo didn't start the rest of the year, we need to know if Keppinger is a legitimate option at SS or not. Unfortunately Mackanin's recent comments seem to say the job is Gonzo's when he's ready.

    In any case I hope the Reds don't move EE from third. His defense has stablilized like many thought it would, and if I had to bet I'd guess his offense next year is closer like 2006 than 2007.

    Sorry for getting away from the Votto discussion again! At least I'm not talking about Dunn...

  12. #236
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    Thanks! I actually use firstinning.com all the time, but I thought they only had home/away and monthly splits. Am I missing the LHP/RHP numbers? The other two look great.
    Firstinning.com has home and road splits, and tons of other information that the others don't so I thought I would offer it up. I don't think they do righty/lefty splits, but the other stuff they provide is nice.


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