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Thread: Why I am a Wayne Krivsky fan

  1. #1
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    Why I am a Wayne Krivsky fan

    Partly because of WK's own success (picking up Arroyo, Phillips, and Ross), 2006 was a better than expected season. It caused many Reds fans to become upset at WK for taking a step back this season. It was inevitable. This franchise was one of the most poorly run in all of baseball. If you look at the roster pre-spring training 2006 when WK, that might be one of the most disgusting rosters I have ever seen. Tony Womack was slotted as the starting 2B, we had no idea who was going to be on first base, and we had one legitimate started (Harang).

    One the whole, look at the mlb ready players WK has brought in (without paying big FA bucks) versus what he has given up in return.

    Brought in:

    Hamilton (Rule 5)
    Burton (Rule 5)
    Bray (trade)
    Majewski (trade)
    Phillips (trade)
    Keppinger (trade)
    Arroyo (trade)
    Ross (I don't remember)
    McBeth (trade)

    Given up:

    Kearns (trade)
    Lopez (trade)
    Pena (trade)
    Denorfia
    some minor league scrap iron like the guys we traded for Keppinger and Phillips

    What makes me encouraged is the vast majority of flyers WK has taken on young guys (Hamilton, Bray, Burton, McBeth, Phillips, Keppinger, etc.) have turned out much better than expected while the guys that have been given up have performed below expectations. That tells me that WK and his staff know a little something about player evaluation - both outside the organization and within.

    While the bullpen combination of inexperience at one extreme and mopped up veterans at the other has caused this season to be dissappointing, I don't think anyone can look at the Reds as an organization and objectively say it is not MUCH better off than it was 1 1/2 years ago and we did not have to sell the farm in terms of players or long term contract commitments to do it.

    I am the first to call for managment/coaching changes if needed. See Bowden, Jim. However, I have to question what anyone who has called for WK to be fired or even seriously considered it knows about the game of baseball.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    you have made a very strong and accurate statement about WK's skill. how about including Pete as his choice for "interim" manager in his list of accomplishments? Perhaps he should get Pete a contract for 2008 before another team grabs him, which they most certainly will do.

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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    I have been thinking this way for a bit as well. It's easy to jump on the guy in charge when we have high expectations and nothing to show for it. One problem is as Reds fans, we are literally "starved to death" for a good, playoff contending team.

    As Eddie Murphy said playing a starving man eating a saltine, "What is this a Ritz?"

    Last years start was an aberration. We hung in till the end in a very weak division. When people got hurt and pitchers showed their true colors, we had no one to step up. Years and years of minor league fodder and poor drafts took their toll.

    Wayne has been on the job for a relative short time in the big picture. A team as messed up as the Reds were is going to take more than one season to clean up. As much as I and everyone else HATES IT!

    Yes his bullpen woes are monumental. But what can you do when the cupboards are bare? He tried to patch what he could and sometimes things work and sometimes they don't. Unfortunately ball players don't have that tester bar installed like "Duracell batteries" and you don't know when they are out of juice (Cormier, Stanton).

    I think the only way to truly tell how good a job Wayne has done will be 3-5 years out and then get a total evaluation of the organization top to bottom. My guess is that we will be in a much better position than the last 7 years. And WK will have had a lot to do with that.

    As far as his good moves go, don't forget Hatteberg, a fine replacement for the very popular Casey and Jeff Conine, a great "teacher" in the clubhouse and good trading chip. My guess is also that he's kept Belhorn around only to trade to someone in need (desparate need albeit) like what happened with Conine. Don't forget Belhorn was the starting 2nd baseman for the WC Redsox.
    Last edited by Red in Atl; 08-23-2007 at 05:11 PM.

  5. #4
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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Snow Chief View Post
    Given up:

    Kearns (trade)
    Lopez (trade)
    Pena (trade)
    Denorfia
    some minor league scrap iron like the guys we traded for Keppinger and Phillips
    Interesting we don't hear about giving up Germano or Harris anymore now that Germano has lost seven of his last eight decisions and Harris has looked very ordinary.

  6. #5
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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    Nice thread Snow Chief! The Reds Mar 21, 2006 traded Bobby Basham to San Diego Padres for David Ross.

    Basham's career stats:
    Year Age* Lg Tm G GS SH IP H ER HR BB K G/F W L S ERA WHIP
    2002 22 A A 13 13 3 87.2 64 16 4 9 97 - 6 4 0 1.64 .837
    2003 23 A A 0 1 0 6.2 5 2 0 1 1 - 0 1 0 2.90 .968
    2003 23 AA CHA 17 17 0 94.0 133 54 16 24 56 - 5 10 0 5.17 1.670
    2004 24 AA CHA 0 0 0 .0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 0 999.99 .000
    2005 25 AA CHA 10 10 0 51.3 52 17 5 9 46 - 5 3 0 2.98 1.188
    2006 26 AA MOB 2 2 0 9.0 14 5 1 3 5 - 0 1 0 5.00 1.889
    2007 27 AA SAN 7 0 0 8.7 26 16 2 3 3 - 0 1 0 16.62 3.346
    2007 27 AA MOB 0 0 0 .0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 0 999.99 .000

    I thought Basham would have been better. Good trade for Krivsky.

    W.Krivsky has done a very good job OVERALL. All things considered. Krivsky needs to probably stay away from his Bowden-like fixation of former Reds that is so similar that WK has for the Twins. Sure the Twins have some great players but doubtful if Ryan turns any of them loose in a trade.

    Again, Snow Chief, very nice thread! Also, just keep WK away from 40+ year old relievers that at one time, long ago, had an arm worth signing.

  7. #6
    The Future GoReds33's Avatar
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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdBaseCoach View Post
    you have made a very strong and accurate statement about WK's skill. how about including Pete as his choice for "interim" manager in his list of accomplishments? Perhaps he should get Pete a contract for 2008 before another team grabs him, which they most certainly will do.
    We should not have Pete as our manager next year. I like how he manages. He just doesn't command the type of respect of the players that Tony LaRussa does.

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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    Pete deserves the job but there are a few I would rather have before him thats for sure.

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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    I tried to edit the above post and align the stats but the icon popped up saying you do not have permission to edit this post. Oh well. Sorry.

  10. #9
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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds33 View Post
    We should not have Pete as our manager next year. I like how he manages. He just doesn't command the type of respect of the players that Tony LaRussa does.
    Sorry Go Reds, but unless your Smiley Face perhaps implies a "tongue-in-cheek" statement, just ask Scott Rolen how much respect he has for Tony LaRussa. Ask Albert Pujols after LaRussa didn't play him at this year's all-star game in San Francisco how much respect he has "NOW" for LaRussa.

    I've read many posts at the Cards forum (with Swamp Turkey as a member, not a LaRussa detractor, I wouldn't say) where many Cards fans over the last three years have had great concerns about LaRussa's managing ability. I know all about LaRussa's lifetime managerial wins, but consider just how lost he was in the 1990 World Series when his heavily favored Oakland A's lost in 4 straight (A's were swept by the Reds!!!) and had no answers to try and get the A's to win at least one game.

    Sure, LaRussa would be interesting, to say the least, about becoming the Reds 2008 manager. Maybe the Reds hire Tony for 2008. But give Pete Mackanin credit- he (Pete) has managed way above my expectations after replacing Jerry Narron. LaRussa will undoubtedly take major dollars away from the 2008 payroll if hired. Mackanin won't. You decide. I take my chances on Pete Mackanin for a one year contract to manage the Reds in 2008 and then let's see what Pete M. can do. Of course I don't expect LaRussa to then be available should Mackanin falter in 2008 or be hired (LaRussa) in 2009.

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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds33 View Post
    We should not have Pete as our manager next year. I like how he manages. He just doesn't command the type of respect of the players that Tony LaRussa does.
    GoReds,

    Here is an example of the respect that Pete has earned from the players. I have many more quotes to support the contention that the players have responded to Pete and will continue to do so in the future.

    "The real good thing about Mackanin is that if you sit around and wait to get a guy into the perfect situation, his part of the game, he might sit for five, six or seven games," said Weathers. "By the time it's his time, he's rusty. Pete hasn't done that like it was done earlier in the year."

    Pete has gained KGJ's respect as well as Dunn's, BP's, etc. The bullpen has responded well. This is the real deal.

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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    He also brought in Maloney, Smit, and Cantu who might help the club in the near future.

  13. #12
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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    I can still see D.Ross standing at the plate looking dumbfounded.
    I can still see Mike Stanton giving up hits with someone elses runners on base.
    I can still see Ryan Freel trying to drive in Adam Dunn.
    I can still see The Reds 9-9.5 games out and 10+under .500.
    Who gets the blame?

  14. #13
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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    Quote Originally Posted by DannyB View Post
    I can still see D.Ross standing at the plate looking dumbfounded.
    I can still see Mike Stanton giving up hits with someone elses runners on base.
    I can still see Ryan Freel trying to drive in Adam Dunn.
    I can still see The Reds 9-9.5 games out and 10+under .500.
    Who gets the blame?
    Put it this way... is there any possible way Krivsky could have turned this team into a 2007 contender without spending tens of millions in free agency? As the OP described he has hit some and missed some. Mike Stanton was a terrible idea, but BP, Hamilton and Burton are all pretty good and he gave up nothing to get them. I'm not fully on the WK bandwagon but he's shown me enough to give him some more time. Coming into this situation his first job was to upgrade the overall talent level of this organization, and in my opinion he has done that.

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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    I agree. WK takes way too much blame for a GM who's been on the job this short of a time. Not to mention how bad this organization was before he took over. This organization was BEYOND BAD.

    When you're saddled with big contracts on aging/oft-injured (Junior) players or non-productive players (Milton, Larue).......or you have very little quality trade-bait to make deals..........it is tough to turn a small market team around.

    We had very few legit rising stars a few years back........now we have Phillips, Gonzalez, Keppinger, Encarnacion, and Cantu for our infield.........all young players that are either improving or arriving. Some might still be questionable chances......that are still worth taking. We have Hamilton in CF........you can't argue that acquisition.

    We have alot of young arms in the bullpen.........and they are growing through the school of hard knocks. But I see some improvement. Most of the problems are with the aging rehab projects. Some worked out for a short while though......like Guardado last season.

    Way too early to write WK off.
    Who's on first?

  16. #15
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    Re: Why I am a WK fan

    Wow, what a difference a manager can make. Krivsky was getting absolutely destroyed on these very boards (I've been guilty of it myself) no more than a couple months ago. Yet, now the Reds have started playing some good ball (with mostly the same players) under Mackanin, and there's a thread started praising Kriv where just about everybody agrees.

    Krivsky has been described as the "Kyle Lohse of Gms". When he's going good, there's nobody better (Hamilton, Phillips, Burton, etc. for little to nothing). When he's off, he misses badly (passed on Lincecum, bullpen, inconsistent SP, etc.). Personally, I like him too, but I'd like him a helluva lot more if he was able to construct an effective bullpen for 2008 and beyond.


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