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Thread: Some unpopular ideas

  1. #1
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    Some unpopular ideas

    Some ideas for the Reds. Many will be unpopular. I'm not wedded to them, just thoughts for now.

    1. Sign Dunn long term if possible. Guy has convinced me. He is having a terrific season. Jacoby's influence, or maybe just maturity, really have helped. If he declines you can drop him down to 6th in the order. He is making steadier contact, has become a better hitter.

    2. After 600, try to move Griffey. Jay Bruce is the heir apparent to right field. Griffey's salary will be a luxury when Jay is ready, presumably early next season.

    3. Trade EE and Votto for pitching. Don't yell. It is hard to get good young pitching for high salaried players. Teams may be more willing to give up good young hurlers for younger guys like EE and Votto. In the case of Votto, Reds are overly lefthanded, they can go (for now) with Hatteberg and Cantu platoon. Eventually, install a righty bat, maybe Cantu alone at first or possibly someone like Todd Frazier can play there. As for EE, see number 4.

    4. Install Keppinger at third base. A gamble for sure. JK may well come back to the pack if a regular. But a gamble worth taking if EE brings pitching in a deal. Reds need high OBP, table setter types, players like Kepp can be very valuable. Doesn't have EE's upside, but if pitching improves this trade-off still could work out. Freel can back up third and elsewhere. Some young third sackers on the farm could eventually take over.

    5. Decline Guardado option, but re-sign for less $$ plus incentives. Guy is such a tremendous reliever, would hate to give up on him. (Also would hate to give him $3.5 mill next year.) Didn't expect much right after surgery, but would like to see him in a Reds uni next year, after a meaningful recup period. If healthy, can be a Weathers/Bray/Burton/Guardado late innings pen with competition for the middle/early roles among Maj, Coffey, Cout, McBeth, Salmon, Stanton, based on spring performance.

    6. Keep Weathers one more year. Guy is tremendous. If he declines, move him to middle relief. You'll never get equal value in a deal.

    7. Get another veteran starter. Next off-season, must get a third starter in a deal. Reds team has a lot of possibles for the pen, but the rotation is very weak after Har/Arroyo. I can live with Livingston or Belisle as a fifth starter (skipped occasionally). I can live with a youngster, likely Homer, as a fourth starter next year. But there must be another solid vet or the team goes no place.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-23-2007 at 01:41 PM.

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  3. #2
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    1. I agree but I think that either Dunn or Griffey have to go this offseason. I would hate to see either move but this club would be in better shape if one would go.

    3. I trade EE not Votto. This organizatoin has been so prospect starved for such a long time that you have to let Votto come up as a red and see what he can do. If the reds trade him we will get daily maybe even hourly updates on his progress on RZ. I am all for moving EE. I haven't lost faith with EE I just think he is losing his position to Keppinger and his high strike outs dont bode well for him.

    4. I agree. This guy has earned a spot to play next year. I think a lot of people are waiting for him to fall and are hesitant on giving him a full time position. I am not worried about him. He may be hot but I think his hitting style is need on this reds team.

    5. I would like to see Guardado back next season. No matter how it is done I think he can be an asset to this team. He will never have the stuff he once had but David Weathers doesn't have the stuff he once had either.

    6. I keep Weathers but try and trade him during the year. His value will start to diminish soon and I would like to see the reds get good value for him.

    7. There isn't a whole lot of starting pitching out there. The market is so bad that Lohse was recently listed as the 4th best FA this offseason. The only guy I would like to see the reds make a run at is Jennings. I know he is having a bad season but he had a few impressive ones in colorado.

    - I would also like to see this organizatoin cut ties with Coffey, Freel, Hatty, Santos, and Stanton. I think Coffey needs a change of scenery and I don't wan't to see him ride the bus from Cincy to Louisville over and over again. Freel has shown that he isn't durable and Hopper is a better replacement for Freel. Hatty has been a good player and will be cheap next year but let Votto play. Santos and Stanton really have no buisness being with this club next season. The only reason I would retain Stanton is to hope he regains some form.

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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    1. I agree but I think that either Dunn or Griffey have to go this offseason. I would hate to see either move but this club would be in better shape if one would go.

    3. I trade EE not Votto. This organizatoin has been so prospect starved for such a long time that you have to let Votto come up as a red and see what he can do. If the reds trade him we will get daily maybe even hourly updates on his progress on RZ. I am all for moving EE. I haven't lost faith with EE I just think he is losing his position to Keppinger and his high strike outs dont bode well for him.

    4. I agree. This guy has earned a spot to play next year. I think a lot of people are waiting for him to fall and are hesitant on giving him a full time position. I am not worried about him. He may be hot but I think his hitting style is need on this reds team.

    5. I would like to see Guardado back next season. No matter how it is done I think he can be an asset to this team. He will never have the stuff he once had but David Weathers doesn't have the stuff he once had either.

    6. I keep Weathers but try and trade him during the year. His value will start to diminish soon and I would like to see the reds get good value for him.

    7. There isn't a whole lot of starting pitching out there. The market is so bad that Lohse was recently listed as the 4th best FA this offseason. The only guy I would like to see the reds make a run at is Jennings. I know he is having a bad season but he had a few impressive ones in colorado.

    - I would also like to see this organizatoin cut ties with Coffey, Freel, Hatty, Santos, and Stanton. I think Coffey needs a change of scenery and I don't wan't to see him ride the bus from Cincy to Louisville over and over again. Freel has shown that he isn't durable and Hopper is a better replacement for Freel. Hatty has been a good player and will be cheap next year but let Votto play. Santos and Stanton really have no buisness being with this club next season. The only reason I would retain Stanton is to hope he regains some form.
    Thanks for your comments. I wonder, though, about Coffey. He was overused so heavily this April/May, perhaps he gain re-gain his form after an off-season of rest.

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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    1) I don't see how Dunn's 2007 varies from his past 5 yrs. He's still striking out like crazy; he's still very powerful.

    2) Agreed

    3) I'd shop them for pitching but you'll still have to get lucky to pry good pitching from an organization. Maybe Detroit would work. They have a lot of young powerful arms and Votto at 1B would be a great fit for them

    4) I could live with Kepp at 3B or SS. I want him in the lineup a lot for the reasons you ennumerated

    5) I disagree he's a tremendous reliever but I'd take him back at $500,000 plus incentives. That said I think he's got a less than 50:50 chance of becoming a back of the bullpen reliever. Prove me wrong Eddie

    6) Agreed

    7) Agreed

  6. #5
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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    [QUOTE=Sea Ray;1449196]1) I don't see how Dunn's 2007 varies from his past 5 yrs. He's still striking out like crazy; he's still very powerful.

    Dunn's 2006 reflected an overall decline in performance. This year, his BA is .30 points higher and OPS is .75 points higher than last. This is significantly better.

  7. #6
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Thanks for your comments. I wonder, though, about Coffey. He was overused so heavily this April/May, perhaps he gain re-gain his form after an off-season of rest.
    Here is what I see in Coffey. This is a guy who has a good fastball but it sits at a certain speed. He has had a few very effective months but those have all been early in the year. You can take that two ways. Either he is effective because he is fresh and then tires as the season goes on or that he is successful in the months where the pitchers have an advantage. When the weather is cooler and the season is fresher the pitcher has an advantage over the batter. Some things cause concerns for me with Coffey. First of all is his weight. He came into camp fat saying that he wanted a second chance at being the closer. First of all if you want to be a closer you need to come into camp fresh and in the best shape of your life. One final thing about him that concerns me is that in his trips to AAA he has come back to the bigs and not changed the way he pitches. He has not worked to develop a second good pitch. He hasn't approached the batters any differently. There are only a few pitchers in the game that can get by with one pitch. One is Rivera who has one of the nastiest cut fastballs in the history of baseball and others who can touch 100 mph. A 93-94 fastball coming out of the pen is just an ordinary pitch especially considering that you can't disguise it with anything else.

    Does Coffey have potential, sure, it is bothers me that he has been sent down to AAA twice now and has been ineffective for the entire year but continues to pitch the same way.

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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    [QUOTE=Kc61;1449222]
    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    1) I don't see how Dunn's 2007 varies from his past 5 yrs. He's still striking out like crazy; he's still very powerful.

    Dunn's 2006 reflected an overall decline in performance. This year, his BA is .30 points higher and OPS is .75 points higher than last. This is significantly better.
    Last year he was doomed by a horrible September. My guess is his numbers were similar to this year as of 8-23-06. Let's hope he doesn't experience another swoon in 2007 after football season starts

  9. #8
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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    Here's an unpopular idea: Trade Harang for 3 prime prospects.

    Reasoning: The Reds won't be competitive during the span of Harang's contract, and his value is incredibly high right now. The return would be astronomical and could revive the organization for the next 6 years.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  10. #9
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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Here's an unpopular idea: Trade Harang for 3 prime prospects.

    Reasoning: The Reds won't be competitive during the span of Harang's contract, and his value is incredibly high right now. The return would be astronomical and could revive the organization for the next 6 years.
    I don't think the Reds front office would agree with the bolded part. I'm pretty sure they see a competitive team in 2008.

  11. #10
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    I don't think the Reds front office would agree with the bolded part. I'm pretty sure they see a competitive team in 2008.
    They also thought Mike Stanton would shore up the bullpen.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  12. #11
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    "competitive" meaning if all things break right they get to .500? sure I can see it too

    EE and Votto won't bring much back in terms of pitching, EE at this point has very little trade value and Votto alone won't do it, maybe a rebuild project of some sort, EE will probably get the rest of this season to show the Reds something, if not Keppinger is your 3B and EE is out of here.
    Go Gators!

  13. #12
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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    They also thought Mike Stanton would shore up the bullpen.
    I'm not saying I agree with them. I just don't think trading Harang is anywhere on their radar.

  14. #13
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    I'm not saying I agree with them. I just don't think trading Harang is anywhere on their radar.
    Yeah, I got that you didn't agree with them.

    And I think you're right -- they honestly think the 2008 Reds will be contending for the NL Central title "with just a few tweaks". Kind of like they thought the 2007 Reds would be in the hunt without a major overhaul.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Yeah, I got that you didn't agree with them.

    And I think you're right -- they honestly think the 2008 Reds will be contending for the NL Central title "with just a few tweaks". Kind of like they thought the 2007 Reds would be in the hunt without a major overhaul.
    Well, in the crummy Central, .500 is contending. A few tweaks can get them to .500 or at least near it. I'd rather they focused on building a 90 game winner and serious World Series contender but I think they are looking to just build an NL Central contender.

  16. #15
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    Re: Some unpopular ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Here's an unpopular idea: Trade Harang for 3 prime prospects.

    Reasoning: The Reds won't be competitive during the span of Harang's contract, and his value is incredibly high right now. The return would be astronomical and could revive the organization for the next 6 years.
    So you don't think there's any way they can put a competitive club on the field until 2011? In that case, you may as well deal Arroyo too, since they're signed for the same period.
    Not all who wander are lost


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