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Thread: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

  1. #46
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    Cueto has three 115+ games (119, 115, 120) and six 110+ games. Volquez only has one 115+ pitch game (118) but has nine 110+ pitch games.

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  3. #47
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    Cueto has three 115+ games (119, 115, 120) and six 110+ games.
    This is a potential problem, in my estimation. He needs to be lifted pre-100 pitches occasionally, and given extra days here and there between now and the end of the season. Then keep him out of winter ball. Remember, he threw 30 innings in the Dominican last winter.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  4. #48
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Great stuff, Cyclone.

    Handlers of Volquez and Cueto, take note!
    __________________
    FWIW

    2008 Pitcher Abuse Points (free content from BP)

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/st...php?cid=204015

    11. Peavy
    17. J. Santana
    23. Cueto
    24. Harang
    32. Volquez
    35. Arroyo
    72. Webb

    Brandon Webb is having an outstanding year, Cy Young quality, and is making it seem nearly effortless.

    I think Dusty is doing OK, except for that extra-inning game...

    Arroyo and Harang are both much further down this list than they have been in the past.

  5. #49
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    Cyclone, great follow up. I think it's very instructional in terms of understanding that long term impact. You don't take the guy out after 115 pitches because he's going to get hurt today or miss his next start. You do it because those extra long outings have a cumulative effect which will catch up to you eventually. And when it does, you're going to wish you had been more judicious.

    The reaper is coming -- and high pitch counts accelerate his approach.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 08-18-2008 at 12:07 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  6. #50
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Arroyo and Harang are both much further down this list than they have been in the past.
    Mainly because they have pitcher poorly compared to prior years which translates to less pitches.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  7. #51
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    Mainly because they have pitcher poorly compared to prior years which translates to less pitches.
    You're right, and that could very well be the case.

    The best pitchers are usually near the top of the abuse list, primarily because they pitch the most. Brandon Webb is a huge exception, this year.

    I've been critical of that Pitchers Abuse Points (mainly for calling it "abuse") list in the past, but it does provide a lot of useful information.

  8. #52
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    Having a good bullpen and starters who are economical with their pitch counts also help the situation.

  9. #53
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    This is a potential problem, in my estimation. He needs to be lifted pre-100 pitches occasionally, and given extra days here and there between now and the end of the season. Then keep him out of winter ball. Remember, he threw 30 innings in the Dominican last winter.
    I've generally been satisfied with Dusty's handling of Volquez; I remember that 118-pitch outing and didn't particularly like it, but if that's the worst mark thus far this season then it hasn't been too bad. Those high pitch Cueto starts had me a bit frustrated, though, especially due to Cueto's age and the workload he'll likely see this season barring an injury.

    I hope the Reds can treat those two (and anybody else that's promising) with a mindset of ensuring they're not only healthy now, but likely healthy in 2009, 2010, and beyond. The last thing we need is to get excited for a possible run in 2010, then have our hopes slashed with key cogs in the rotation going down to injury and/or ineffectiveness ala Harang and Arroyo this season.
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  10. #54
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    How about CC Sebathia? Dude made like 130 pitches last night. He's pitched a ton of complete games and regularly pitches 115+.

  11. #55
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    How about CC Sebathia? Dude made like 130 pitches last night. He's pitched a ton of complete games and regularly pitches 115+.
    For the most part, the Indians protected Sabathia fairly well from 2005-07. And until his last outing as an Indian earlier this year when he threw 123 pitches, the Indians didn't run his pitch counts up much this season either.

    Milwaukee, on the other hand, is treating him as if they have no intentions of keeping him beyond 2008. It'll be buyer beware for whoever offers up the big money to Sabathia this offseason considering that the Brewers don't seem too concerned about what they may be doing to his arm right now.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  12. #56
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    For the most part, the Indians protected Sabathia fairly well from 2005-07. And until his last outing as an Indian earlier this year when he threw 123 pitches, the Indians didn't run his pitch counts up much this season either.

    Milwaukee, on the other hand, is treating him as if they have no intentions of keeping him beyond 2008. It'll be buyer beware for whoever offers up the big money to Sabathia this offseason considering that the Brewers don't seem too concerned about what they may be doing to his arm right now.
    Good call. I didn't look at his stats from 2005-2007, but since he's been a Brewer, it's just been absolutely ridiculous. Why leave him in to make 130 pitches with a 7 run lead in the 9th??

  13. #57
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    Boy, times have changed.

  14. #58
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, & Brandon Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Boy, times have changed.
    Well, Peavy at least hurt himself running the bases. So times haven't changed that much. But I hear you.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013


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