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Thread: Joba and Homer

  1. #1
    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Joba and Homer

    I am starting this thread to whine. I know no one does that here at Redszone but I thought I would try something new. Why is it that the Yankees can decide 2-3 years ago that they are going to focus on the minors once again and within a couple of years names such as Joba Chamberlin, Phillip Hughes, and soon it appears others not only start coming up from the minors but start really contrbuting right off of the bat. Then you have what many consider to be the top pitching prospect in baseball (Homer) hurt and doesn't appear to be anywhere close to as polished as these guys. I'm not giving up on Homer (not at all) I just wonder how a team can go from what many considered to be the worst farm system in baseball to one that has produced 2 incredible talents in the same year....and the beat goes on in Cincy.

    I know the easy answer is money but it is hard to say that is what it is when both of the above guys were available in the draft and virtually every team passed them up. Do the Yanks just do a lot better training in the minors (recently)?
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

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  3. #2
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Joba and Homer

    Well the Yankees spent a million dollars each of the past two seasons to sign lower round draft picks. Hughes and Chamberlain were both first round picks.

    Chamberlain has 2 pitches right now, both are very good. His last year in college though he was fat, out of shape and not throwing as hard as he once had. He fell down draft boards becuase of it.

    Hughes, you say is polished and all....5.35 ERA and lots of HR so far suggests otherwise.

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    Re: Joba and Homer

    To follow on what Doug is saying. On the Yankee broadcast they were talking about this as Joba was mowing down Red Sox hitters. The Yankees can take chances on guys like Joba (who are falling on draft boards) or like Brackman because they can cover up their mistakes in the Free Agent market. So they can go with high-risk, high-reward like players. The Reds can't.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Joba and Homer

    Let me also say that I like Hughes future potential, but his fastball seems to be slowing down lately and has me concerned right now.

  6. #5
    Ya can't teach speed... Triples's Avatar
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    Re: Joba and Homer

    Its seems you would also have to take into account that the Yankees never exactly moth balled their farm system, they simply seldom promoted anyone from the minors to the major. Choosing instead to either buy a free agent veteren player or trade away some of their strong minor leaguers for top shelf (and expensive) veteran players that were no longer affordable by the teams they had currently played for. I have not done any research to back this up but I think you would find that the Yanks signed most of their draft picks and a high % of them were quite good. As a result, when they decided to go (somewhat) with a youth movement their farm system wasn't void of talent.

    It would be interesting to see how many top 10 round picks of the Yankees over say the last 5-8 years are now starters somewhere else.
    Last edited by Triples; 08-30-2007 at 02:26 PM.
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    Re: Joba and Homer

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Chamberlain has 2 pitches right now, both are very good. His last year in college though he was fat, out of shape and not throwing as hard as he once had. He fell down draft boards becuase of it.
    And if memory serves correct there was a lot of concern about his injury history and long term durability.

  8. #7
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Joba and Homer

    Quote Originally Posted by Triples View Post

    It would be interesting to see how many top 10 round picks of the Yankees over say the last 5-8 years are now starters somewhere else.
    Top 10 round picks from the yankees going back to 1998 show only a few names who even appeared in the bigs, much less started or starred.

    Randy Flores
    Scott Wiggins
    Randy Choate
    Tyrell Godwin
    randy Kiesler
    Andy Phillips
    matt Smith
    Shelley Duncan
    Tyler Clippard
    Phil Hughes
    Joba Chamberlain
    Ian Kennedy

    Just to compare to the Reds in that same period:

    Homer Bailey
    Ryan Wagner
    Dustin Mosely
    Ryan Snare
    Dane Sardhina [1 game]
    Ben Broussard
    Scott Dunn
    Adam Dunn
    Austin Kearns
    Bobby Madritsch
    Josh Hall

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Joba and Homer

    Quote Originally Posted by nmculbreth View Post
    And if memory serves correct there was a lot of concern about his injury history and long term durability.
    Also correct. It was a gamble by the Yankees, and so far it paid off bigtime.

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    Re: Joba and Homer

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Top 10 round picks from the yankees going back to 1998 show only a few names who even appeared in the bigs, much less started or starred.

    Randy Flores
    Scott Wiggins
    Randy Choate
    Tyrell Godwin
    randy Kiesler
    Andy Phillips
    matt Smith
    Shelley Duncan
    Tyler Clippard
    Phil Hughes
    Joba Chamberlain
    Ian Kennedy

    Just to compare to the Reds in that same period:

    Homer Bailey
    Ryan Wagner
    Dustin Mosely
    Ryan Snare
    Dane Sardhina [1 game]
    Ben Broussard
    Scott Dunn
    Adam Dunn
    Austin Kearns
    Bobby Madritsch
    Josh Hall

    Yep. Yankees and Reds have pumped more garbage out of their minors in the last ten years than Metro Sewage.

    Just goes to prove that you CAN win it with FAs.

  11. #10
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Joba and Homer

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Yep. Yankees and Reds have pumped more garbage out of their minors in the last ten years than Metro Sewage.

    Just goes to prove that you CAN win it with FAs (if you have a 120 million dollar payroll).
    Fixed that for ya.

  12. #11
    Ya can't teach speed... Triples's Avatar
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    Re: Joba and Homer

    So much for that theory!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Yep. Yankees and Reds have pumped more garbage out of their minors in the last ten years than Metro Sewage.

    Just goes to prove that you CAN win it with FAs.
    Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona. Not all holes, or games, are created equal. ~George Will


  13. #12
    Ya can't teach speed... Triples's Avatar
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    Re: Joba and Homer

    So much for that theory!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Top 10 round picks from the yankees going back to 1998 show only a few names who even appeared in the bigs, much less started or starred.

    Randy Flores
    Scott Wiggins
    Randy Choate
    Tyrell Godwin
    randy Kiesler
    Andy Phillips
    matt Smith
    Shelley Duncan
    Tyler Clippard
    Phil Hughes
    Joba Chamberlain
    Ian Kennedy

    Just to compare to the Reds in that same period:

    Homer Bailey
    Ryan Wagner
    Dustin Mosely
    Ryan Snare
    Dane Sardhina [1 game]
    Ben Broussard
    Scott Dunn
    Adam Dunn
    Austin Kearns
    Bobby Madritsch
    Josh Hall
    Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona. Not all holes, or games, are created equal. ~George Will


  14. #13
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    Re: Joba and Homer

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Yep. Yankees and Reds have pumped more garbage out of their minors in the last ten years than Metro Sewage.

    Just goes to prove that you CAN win it with FAs.
    Yanks have:
    Chamberlain
    Hughes
    Kennedy (on Sat.)
    Pettitte
    E. Ramirez
    Rivera
    Wang
    Posada
    Cano
    Duncan
    Jeter
    Phillips
    Cabrera

    On the 25 man that were from their system. Almost 50%. Not bad.

    Drafting is more that just the first round.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  15. #14
    The Future GoReds33's Avatar
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    Re: Joba and Homer

    Quote Originally Posted by nmculbreth View Post
    And if memory serves correct there was a lot of concern about his injury history and long term durability.
    He has been injured a couple times this year. He still has alot to prove. I think he could be the number 4 pitcher in baseball... right behind Harang, Bailey, and Cueto. Maybe he will be just ahead of Arroyo and Belisle.

  16. #15
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Joba and Homer

    At the end of Lance's show today, he said that Andrew Brackman will undergo Tommy John Surgery and be out 12-18 months.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.


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