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Thread: Why Ellison in the 6th??

  1. #1
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Why Ellison in the 6th??

    Here's what Pete said about using Ellison in the 6th when I asked him.

    "There’s a lot of game left. You’re talking about the sixth inning. I don’t want to use my better pinch hitters in my estimation that early in the ball game, especially with two outs. It’s tough to come up with a two-out hit. If Jason comes up with a two-out hit, that’s a bonus. To me, that’s too early to use my best. Especially since they have (Pedro) Feliciano, they’ve got (Scott) Schoeneweis, another kid (Willie Collazo) and their closer (Billy Wagner) is left-handed. So I might have needed all three of them to win a game."


    - Trent

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  3. #2
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    My takeaway from that soundbite is that we should be glad that Ellison is not viewed as one of the "better pinch hitters."
    /r/reds

  4. #3
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    I would prefer the soundbite give the impression that Ellison doesn't even belong here.

  5. #4
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    a bunch of garbage. There is no reason to ever use Ellison as anything other than a pinch runner. Pete was channeling Narron by building elaborate scenarios that were highly unlikely to ever occur, so instead he wasted a PH AB on "Pam" Ellison.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  6. #5
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    So we save the good hitters because we MIGHT need them later, and also lefties have no prayer against lefty relievers

    Got it Pete.

    What's sad is a lot of managers do the same stuff.
    Go Gators!

  7. #6
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    This after his saving bullets comment from the other day. When you have a shot, you take your best one. You don't sit around and hope for a better one; you very well may be dead before it comes.

    It's this sort of logic that puts your 3rd middle reliever in to get out of a 7th inning jam as well, only to use your closer up 3 at the start of the 9th.

    It screams to me to be a CYA type of move. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too. Yes, he marginally increased the likelihood of a hit and thus driving in the run. However, he saved his "better" hitters for a spot later so he wouldn't have to explain "wasting" that guy earlier.

    Guess what Pete? Those tougher pitchers you just named indicates to me that we're not very likely to be a position where a pinch hitter can drive in a run. If you bring in the good hitter and he gets you an RBI, nobody will second guess you. If he makes an out, well, then if he couldn't come through against the easier pitcher, why would he have fared any better later? It's just poor logic.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #7
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    when i read the comments.. i was shocked! sounded more like Narron or Maybe Pete has accepted learning-how-to-loose, the Wayne way!!.. GRRRRRR

    If i wanted the job bad enough, NOWAY Ellison plays... Cantu would have been batting there in the 6th.. Why not use "Mr RBI Machine"???? oh maybe he felt Ellison got that one double, he deserved a chance to get another hit in 19 at bats!!

    I was giving Mack the benefit after watching this team in August and the last game i saw in person,where they won on Sunday before the trip to Pittsburgh.. Now i feel Mack has turned into Narron and i dont want that managing the reds in 2008!!

    BOB better really make a statement in the offseason adn yes we are not happy BOB.. we as fans deserve a Championship team!!

  9. #8
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    Just as long as he figures out this year that he's not a good bench guy!
    And This One Belongs to the REDS!!!

  10. #9
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    We thought it couldn't get worse than Castro...

  11. #10
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    Oh wow, looky:

    Oh yeah, I got called into the manager's office. Pete said he knew I disagreed with his decision to hit Ellison yesterday so he wanted to debate me on it. Let's just say, with all the information Pete had -- much of it I'm not at liberty to divulge -- it makes a lot of sense to do it that way. Still not 100 percent sure I'd do the same thing he did, but I'm probably somewhere around 90 percent sure I would. It was good stuff. Pete wasn't mad at all, he just wanted to talk to me about it and tell me why he did what he did.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  12. #11
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    I often wonder how many "odd managerial decisions" would make a lot more sense if we all had the same information from which to work as the manager himself. We do a lot of assuming about their thought processes, setting up straw man arguments that we're more than happy to knock down.

    What makes it tricky is that often the manager has to make a public statement to the press and he'll make the comment he's allowed to make, rather than give the full picture. I wish I had a better sense on how often the explanation we get is fully accurate.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #12
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    I'd like to know the information on Ellison that makes him a viable candidate

  14. #13
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Oh wow,

    Oh yeah, I got called into the manager's office. Pete said he knew I disagreed with his decision to hit Ellison yesterday so he wanted to debate me on it. Let's just say, with all the information Pete had -- much of it I'm not at liberty to divulge -- it makes a lot of sense to do it that way. Still not 100 percent sure I'd do the same thing he did, but I'm probably somewhere around 90 percent sure I would. It was good stuff. Pete wasn't mad at all, he just wanted to talk to me about it and tell me why he did what he did.
    looky:
    I'm glad to see this. When I scanned his blog of yesterday's game, frankly, I thought he was losing it. Also, it's a difficult line to walk being both a reporter and a blogger. I wonder if some of this crossing over is causing some of the tension around the club. It's often the domain of columnists to state their opinions, but each beat reporter has both their news writing and their blogging or "analysis", and the lines blur quite a lot.

  15. #14
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    i e-mailed Trent to ask him how many times he thought the pitchers spot would come up AFTER the 6th inning.. hmmm if they have the lead, maybe ONCE??? how he going to use 3 WAY better hitters then?? that was ridiculous defending a guy with one stupid hit and not using 3 guys that could have done a better job... what does that tell the guys on the team that see this crap this past week??

  16. #15
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Why Ellison in the 6th??

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    We thought it couldn't get worse than Castro...
    It still hasn't. At least Ellison can run.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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