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Thread: Why no Bruce??

  1. #16
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic View Post
    It's only rushing him if he isn't ready.

    I understand all the reasons for not bringing him up and don't disagree. But there's a pretty compelling reason to bring him up: If you find out he's ready, it can influence your offseason decisions regarding Dunn and Junior. And this franchise faces HUGE decisions on those two players.

    They have to address the pitching staff. To do that, they're going to have to trade some legitimate talent. If you have a guy banging down the door in the minors at a given position, it makes it easier to decide who to trade for pitching.

    Now ... They may very well feel they know all they need to know about Jay Bruce. That's fine. But this is a huge offseason ...
    I think the Reds know exactly what they have in Jay Bruce and they don't believe they need him to get at bats right now to know what he can do next season. This offseason is huge in terms of the future, I just hope the Reds make the right decisions.

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  3. #17
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Perhaps I might suggest not being so caught up in the parsing of the detailed minutia that surrounds the everyday operation of the team?

    When you dig through the garbage looking for trash don't be surprised that's what you find.
    Maybe so.

    The offseason may do me some good

  4. #18
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Not only are you starting his clock but you are burning options and he is taking the spot of someone else on the 40 man that you may need to protect over the winter.

    Mackanin's answer is a dumb one though.
    Surely that is the reason.

    There is no need to put Bruce on the 40 man until he makes the team. It will allow them to protect/claim another player in the rule V draft. And like others have said, between Hamilton, Votto, Griffey and Dunn, they don't exactly have a lot of ABs to spread around.

  5. #19
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    I'm probably one of the few people that's actually quite content with Bruce not getting called up, and that has nothing to do with trying to prevent his service clock from kicking into gear.

    Bruce has already performed at three different levels in the minor leagues this season, and while he's crushed the ball, he's still had to go through a number of adjustments in a very short period of time with the different levels of play. Considering he'll also be playing a few weeks with Team USA, he'll be getting more reps in with that squad against yet another level of competition.

    Additionally, while he has crushed the ball this season, he still does only have ~250 plate appearances total in the upper minors in his career. Yes, he's an absurd talent. Yes, he's taken multiple huge steps forward this season. But people still need to quell their expectations for him a bit, otherwise they'll just set themselves up for disappointment. The dude's still only 20-years-old, and I'm sure this season has been a whirlwind for him. There's no indications that calling him up would wear him down, but I'm sure the time off should hopefully help him in the long run, both physically and mentally.

    Considering all that, plus knowing he'll be playing with Team USA shortly, I'm fine with giving him a little bit of rest for a few weeks right now.
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  6. #20
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    I think I'm just worn out....this team will do that.



    I could find him some at bats.....maybe not a ton, but some.
    Don't worry Matt. I was referring to Mac. Though I'm sure he feels the same way...
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  7. #21
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    Cyclone, very well said. This kid's day will come and soon enough. We don't need him now for the dog and pony show.

    BTW, I give Krivsky some credit for talking with the kid personally and laying out the club's rationale. Likewise, I give Bruce credit for his mature response. I like that alot.

  8. #22
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    You have to play DUNN to get his number up so you can trade him and they want Hamilton, Griffey, Kepp, Hopper to play. Just not enough ab. Why bring him up and start his clock.
    And This One Belongs to the REDS!!!

  9. #23
    Duranie Ho, Ho, Ho! KittyDuran's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    Good thing no one told that to Junior when he started out... wasn't he 20 years old or younger as a rookie and a 1st round draft choice as well???
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  10. #24
    Duranie Ho, Ho, Ho! KittyDuran's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    Of course, Dunn was 21 years old with only so many at bats with Louisville - but 2001 was a very lost season - he was the only thing that kept me going to the games with season tickets...
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  11. #25
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    Challenge thy hitters/ coddle thy pitchers.

    Isn't that a Redzone mantra?

    Seems like the Reds have it backwards this year with Bailey/ Bruce.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  12. #26
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyDuran View Post
    Good thing no one told that to Junior when he started out... wasn't he 20 years old or younger as a rookie and a 1st round draft choice as well???
    19

  13. #27
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    Surely that is the reason.

    There is no need to put Bruce on the 40 man until he makes the team. It will allow them to protect/claim another player in the rule V draft. And like others have said, between Hamilton, Votto, Griffey and Dunn, they don't exactly have a lot of ABs to spread around.

    You forgot Hopper and Ellison. :

    Hamilton needs as many ABs and innings in the field as he can get. Jr. is going for 600 HRs and Dunn is going for 40 HRs and 100 RBIs. Plus you could make the argument that Dunn needs time in the field anyway to improve his defense.

    If you had to protect Bruce this year, I wouldn't have too much a problem with it even if he just sat on the bench. But they don't need to protect him and if he goes on the 40 man roster, when the guys on the 60 day DL come off, you are going to have to make some tough decisions on who to take off the 40 man roster.
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  14. #28
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    I'm perfectly fine with him not coming up yet. Cyclone said it well -- he's had a big year and he'll be playing with Team USA soon. Let him catch a breather. We don't really have at-bats for him right now, and this is the time to be smart about setting up the 40-man roster for the offseason. Considering how our last fishing trip to the Rule V pond went, I want to keep a couple of spots open, and that's easier to do if we don't add guys to the 40 who don't have to be there.
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  15. #29
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    I'm probably one of the few people that's actually quite content with Bruce not getting called up, and that has nothing to do with trying to prevent his service clock from kicking into gear.
    I'm fine with him not coming North this fall.

    On a somewhat related thought ...

    One of the problems with kids progressing this fast through the system is that the opponent never really gets a good "book" on you. Eventually you'll get to MLB and they will certainly get one on you. If you haven't been trained to make adjustments, then you'll likely struggle and lose some measure of confidence. I like my players teaming with confidence.

    Does this apply to Bruce? I'd say it applies to everyone. The question is how much training would one need to be able to make these adjustments? I think with his rise through the levels nobody really will have an answer to that. He might hit like a monster from day one and never falter, me might crash and burn never really having been forced to make adjustments at any level, much less the MLB level. Likely he'll fall in between, but which will he be closer too?

    Conversly, I think we can expect a bit of an adjustment period from Votto, as we have seen a pattern of it from level-to-level with him. I think it also shows he has the ability to make those adjustments.

    GL

  16. #30
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Why no Bruce??

    Bruce would be taking away at bats from Adam Dunn, Ken Griffey Jr., or Josh Hamilton. Bailey took away starts from Phil Dumatrait. You do the math. Bringing up Bruce also sends the message to other teams that we're anxious to get rid of one of those aforementioned OF. Perhaps we are, but no reason to lose leverage.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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