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Thread: Looking to see who can be centerfield

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  1. #1
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Looking to see who can be centerfield

    If we're being honest with ourselves, the Reds really don't have a true CF in house at the moment. Ryan Freel's a hard working utility man, not a natural CF. Norris Hopper's a bench player. Josh Hamilton's a corner OF who can hold down CF in a pinch. Chris Dickerson is a true CF, but he doesn't hit well enough to be more than a role player. Jay Bruce, by all accounts, is the second coming of Larry Walker, which means that he'd be an all right CF, but that he could dominate in RF. I say put him where he can dominate.

    That means if the Reds truly want a CF then they're going to have go outside their walls to find one. I'll kick it off here with some names, but there's a lot more guys than the ones I'm going to list and I'm curious to hear what others think about various candidates.

    Free agents

    Andruw Jones - He's one of the younger free agent CFs (30) and he ranks #1 among CFs in RZR (.931, though do not take that as blanket proof that he is the best overall CF out there). Yet he's also having his worst season at the plate in a decade and he'll be ridiculously expensive.

    Torii Hunter - He's 32 with power and still has some range (.897 RZR). He's lost a step around the bases and he's never been all that good about finding 1B. Also stands to be a budget buster.

    Aaron Rowand - His timing is impeccable, OPSing roughly 100 points above his career average in his walk year. Whether he can continue to do that is an open question, but less so in a small park like the GAB. He plays hustle defense, but his RZR is usually on the low side (.854 this season). He might become the "in vogue" selection.

    Mike Cameron - He's been incredibly steady the past nine seasons, great glove (.895 RZR), good wheels, good power, good eye at the plate. His numbers usually aren't eye-popping, but that's largely because he's played in the best pitchers parks in baseball. Put him in a hitter's park and you could get an .850+ OPS player for a couple of seasons. The downside is he's 34, though he keeps himself in tremendous shape. Probably the least expensive of the top free agent CFs.

    Corey Patterson - Patterson's seriously OB challenged and his power comes and goes, but he does have his plusses. He's got primo wheels, he's only 28, he's an average BA guy and he might just be the best defensive CF alive (.903 RZR this season, .949 last year). Patterson might just have himself a prime, especially if someone sticks him in a bandbox. If his BA ticks up to .280-.290 range and his power settles in, then you might be looking at a discount version of Aaron Rowand.

    Trade market

    Rocco Baldelli - B.J. Upton's going to be the D-Rays CF for the forseeable future. Delmon Young's in RF, Carl Crawford's in LF. That leaves Baldelli as a man without a place to play. He's beyond gimpy, but he could hit .300 with power, speed and a very good glove (though he won't be drawing many walks) if he could stay healthy. Tampa Bay needs middle IF and pitching help, perhaps LH power too (e.g. a guy like Jr. to DH). There'd be no point in trading Brandon Phillips for him (same basic guy), but he's a fairly established CF without a job.

    Carlos Gomez - Carlos Beltran may be the best player alive. Then when you add in vets in the OF corners and two other primo OF prospects, the Mets are swimming in OF talent. Does that mean you could pry away Gomez? Don't know, but I'd ask.
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  2. #2
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    I like Patterson as a #7 hitter, but the team would have to find a RH bat *somewhere*.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    I like Patterson as a #7 hitter, but the team would have to find a RH bat *somewhere*.
    Phillips, Encarnacion, Gonzalez, catcher perhaps. I'm not sure where this LH overload myth came from and I doubt it would be a problem even if it existed.
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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Phillips, Encarnacion, Gonzalez, catcher perhaps. I'm not sure where this LH overload myth came from and I doubt it would be a problem even if it existed.
    Dunn, Griffey, Hamilton, Bruce, Votto.

    Those are 5 bats who are either here now or are knocking on the door who are lefty.

    They are 26th in the majors in OPS vs LHPs this season.

    Cincy's secret weapon vs LHPs is now on the Mets.

    All of that adds up to a problem.

  5. #5
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Dunn, Griffey, Hamilton, Bruce, Votto.

    Those are 5 bats who are either here now or are knocking on the door who are lefty.

    They are 26th in the majors in OPS vs LHPs this season.

    Cincy's secret weapon vs LHPs is now on the Mets.

    All of that adds up to a problem.
    Yeah, too many LH bats can sink a franchise. Just ask the Yankees. It's been a thorn in their side ever since they got that Babe Ruth guy from the Red Sox.

    Certainly the Reds could stand to improve vs. LHPs, but there are LH hitters who can hit LHPs. Dunn and Jr. have both been solid against LHPs during their careers.

    Also, the five guys you mentioned literally can't all take the field at the same time, so that's four LH hitters on any given day and in no, way, shape or form does half your lineup being LH constitute an overload.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Yeah, too many LH bats can sink a franchise. Just ask the Yankees. It's been a thorn in their side ever since they got that Babe Ruth guy from the Red Sox.

    Certainly the Reds could stand to improve vs. LHPs, but there are LH hitters who can hit LHPs. Dunn and Jr. have both been solid against LHPs during their careers.

    Also, the five guys you mentioned literally can't all take the field at the same time, so that's four LH hitters on any given day and in no, way, shape or form does half your lineup being LH constitute an overload.
    There's a difference between "could stand to improve" and being 26th out of 30 in OPS.

    And I agree that 4 of those guys can only take the field at one time. But where does the talent lie? Dunn, Griffey, Votto, Bruce and Hamilton or Phillips, EdE, Gonzalez and Ross/Valentin?

    It isn't shocking why they struggle vs LHPs.

  7. #7
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Yeah, too many LH bats can sink a franchise. Just ask the Yankees. It's been a thorn in their side ever since they got that Babe Ruth guy from the Red Sox.
    Not really the best example, since the Reds can't afford to bring in the best left-handed hitters in the game.

    Kearns, Aurilia, and Ross did more than their share vs. Lefties in 2006. Two of those bats are gone, and one (Ross) was pretty much an illusion.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    I don't see anything like this happening. I see Jay Bruce or Josh Hamilton out there for at least 2 years and then Stubbs coming up and taking it over.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
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    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by paulrichjr View Post
    I don't see anything like this happening. I see Jay Bruce or Josh Hamilton out there for at least 2 years and then Stubbs coming up and taking it over.
    You think Krivsky is content with fielding a below average defensive outfield?

  10. #10
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    You think Krivsky is content with fielding a below average defensive outfield?
    Yes he is, as long as they make all the routine plays, which appears to be his number 1 rule for good defense.

    In any case all of these names will cost a lot of money, just go with Bruce or Hamilton.
    Go Gators!

  11. #11
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    You think Krivsky is content with fielding a below average defensive outfield?
    He's had one for 2 years running. If he's not content with a below average defensive OF, you wouldn't know it.
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  12. #12
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio View Post
    He's had one for 2 years running. If he's not content with a below average defensive OF, you wouldn't know it.
    It certainly looks that way, doesn't it?

  13. #13
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by paulrichjr View Post
    I don't see anything like this happening. I see Jay Bruce or Josh Hamilton out there for at least 2 years and then Stubbs coming up and taking it over.
    Exactly. The OF is already shaping up to be a logjam of Dunn'Griffey/Kearns/WMP proportions.

    Though dealing Jr and adding Hunter would be phenomenal.

  14. #14
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Exactly. The OF is already shaping up to be a logjam of Dunn'Griffey/Kearns/WMP proportions.

    Though dealing Jr and adding Hunter would be phenomenal.
    Big offensive downgrade for marginal defensive upgrade?

    Hunter isn't the CF he once was, but isn't quite to the stage KGJ's become. I just don't know if I shell out near KGJ money for a player that will only marginally improve the D while sacrificing the O.

  15. #15
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Big offensive downgrade for marginal defensive upgrade?

    Hunter isn't the CF he once was, but isn't quite to the stage KGJ's become. I just don't know if I shell out near KGJ money for a player that will only marginally improve the D while sacrificing the O.
    Big offensive downgrade? Not sure about that.

    Marginal defensive upgrade? Again, debatable.

    Hunter is having a great year...and is murdering lefties. Not to say that he's a lock to have the same type of season next year, but he's also a lot younger than Jr and should be playing for a while after Griffey retires.

    I think it's a no brainer if you can get some return on Jr. Dependent on the money, of course.


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