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Thread: Looking to see who can be centerfield

  1. #181
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Homer's rehabbing an injury.


    Let's get him healthy, get him exprience, and give him time.



    He's 21. 6 starts does not make a career.

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  3. #182
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    Homer's rehabbing an injury.


    Let's get him healthy, get him exprience, and give him time.



    He's 21. 6 starts does not make a career.
    Rehabbing an injury?

    I guess that's what you can call it.

  4. #183
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    I'm not ready to give up on a 21 year old kid, with 6 big league starts, with a ceiling as high as his.

    Maybe you are


    If he were a Cardinal, you would be raving about him....

  5. #184
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post


    If he were a Cardinal, you would be raving about him....
    The Cardinals don't have a ton of success raising their own starters from the minors--but boy, they know how to turn their fool's good into 24 K MLB pitching.

    There's a lesson in there for those who wish to look....

  6. #185
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    The Cardinals don't have a ton of success raising their own starters from the minors--but boy, they know how to turn their fool's gold into 24 K MLB pitching.
    Like who? Of the guys on the Cardinals that can be called 24K pitchers -- a definition that doesn't include journeymen who are pitching well for the moment -- not a single one was acquired in the manner you're suggesting. Carpenter was signed as a free agent off an arm blowout. Isringhausen was a free agent. Wainwright came in a trade with J.D. Drew as the main guy going the other way. So that leaves Mulder, and all that trade proved was that the Cardinals can be wrong about their prospects as easily as anyone else.

    The Cardinals are a good trading organization, I don't argue that. They're one of the more astute ones in dumping their pyrite while it's still shiny to get help for the MLB club. But they still hold onto their gold when they think it's gold. The "lesson" isn't to overpay in prospects for any scrap of veteran goodness, it's that a club has to know its gold from its pyrite.
    Not all who wander are lost

  7. #186
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    but boy, they know how to turn their fool's good into 24 K MLB pitching.
    And vice-versa.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  8. #187
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Trading all of our upside for fixed level mediocrity guarantees that we'll never surpass mediocrity.

    When you're winning 85 games and you want to win 90, it makes sense to trade your high ceiling guys for that "established" starter to put you over the top.

    I have no interest in trading away Homer Bailey for Jason Jennings, or whoever this year's Jason Jennings is. I'd rather spend that $25M on Silva because no amount of money can replace what Bailey might become.

    Let's say Bailey has a 10% chance of being an ace, 30% chance of being average, and 60% of being crap. Well, that's still a 10% chance that Carlos Silva doesn't have. No amount of additional Carlos Silva's makes this team a contender. But trading away that 10% chance can pretty much guarantee that you'll never be one.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  9. #188
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Trading all of our upside for fixed level mediocrity guarantees that we'll never surpass mediocrity.

    When you're winning 85 games and you want to win 90, it makes sense to trade your high ceiling guys for that "established" starter to put you over the top.

    I have no interest in trading away Homer Bailey for Jason Jennings, or whoever this year's Jason Jennings is. I'd rather spend that $25M on Silva because no amount of money can replace what Bailey might become.

    Let's say Bailey has a 10% chance of being an ace, 30% chance of being average, and 60% of being crap. Well, that's still a 10% chance that Carlos Silva doesn't have. No amount of additional Carlos Silva's makes this team a contender. But trading away that 10% chance can pretty much guarantee that you'll never be one.
    Who says I'm arguing getting mediocrity for Bailey and Bruce? I'm thinking of getting a super-high ceiling MLB arm with perhaps some maturity issues for a Bailey. And a front of the rotation starter in a package involving Bruce.

    I ain't targeting Suppan, here, folks. Not with those prospects.

  10. #189
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    I'm all for trading Homer but not Bruce.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  11. #190
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    The Reds need to operate under the assumption that NONE of those three will likely turn into top of the rotation starters, and move forward accordingly. All three of the young men jojo mentioned appear longshots to be league average starters, much less the top notch arms the Reds actually need.

    And I think Arroyo will go postnuclear next season.

    I think it's time to go big time ballsy and turn Bailey and Bruce into two MLB starters (hunt and peck for a couple more Burtons--Cueto?) and make a run at a pennant the next couple of years while Harang is still under contract.

    This timidity is killing this franchise. And me.
    FCB I have started to disregard anything you say. Bailey is garbage because he had 3 poor starts in the bigs and then injured his groin. Bruce is a crapshoot because he is a prospect. Not to mention that he just won minor leauge player of the year. Check out the list. If Bruce is as bad as the worst MiLB player of the year then I think he will be an every day player.

    You don't develop a farm system to trade away all your best prospects because they all are long shots to be league average starters. Are all prospects a sure thing, no, but I would rather roll the dice with them, build a club, and then spend money when you are a player or two away than trade them for the Silva's or the world or sign the Milton's of the world.

  12. #191
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    FCB I have started to disregard anything you say. Bailey is garbage because he had 3 poor starts in the bigs and then injured his groin. Bruce is a crapshoot because he is a prospect. Not to mention that he just won minor leauge player of the year. Check out the list. If Bruce is as bad as the worst MiLB player of the year then I think he will be an every day player.

    You don't develop a farm system to trade away all your best prospects because they all are long shots to be league average starters. Are all prospects a sure thing, no, but I would rather roll the dice with them, build a club, and then spend money when you are a player or two away than trade them for the Silva's or the world or sign the Milton's of the world.
    I know EXACTLY how great Bruce is going to be. But I know how BADLY the Reds need pitching.

  13. #192
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    And vice-versa.
    You've watched the last 8 years of baseball, right?

    I'd hate to have what the Cardinals have. You're absolutely right. What an idiotic franchise.

  14. #193
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Who says I'm arguing getting mediocrity for Bailey and Bruce? I'm thinking of getting a super-high ceiling MLB arm with perhaps some maturity issues for a Bailey. And a front of the rotation starter in a package involving Bruce.

    I ain't targeting Suppan, here, folks. Not with those prospects.
    Ok, who are you targeting? Matt Garza?

    I can sort of get behind the logic that you might as well turn top position prospects in to top pitching prospects, given the relative value of them in FA.

    But why would somebody give us their super high ceiling guy who's close to that ceiling for our super high ceiling guy who's far away?
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  15. #194
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Ok, who are you targeting? Matt Garza?

    I can sort of get behind the logic that you might as well turn top position prospects in to top pitching prospects, given the relative value of them in FA.

    But why would somebody give us their super high ceiling guy who's close to that ceiling for our super high ceiling guy who's far away?
    Bruce isn't far away. Bailey's a huge gamble, and is probably years away, if ever; but teams, like posters on this board, get drunk on the notion of prospects and will trade a live misbehaving hawk for two pretty wren eggs in the bush every day of their lives. For what reason, I don't know, and I don't care--but there are those teams that think the future is magic.

  16. #195
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to see who can be centerfield

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Bruce isn't far away. Bailey's a huge gamble, and is probably years away, if ever; but teams, like posters on this board, get drunk on the notion of prospects and will trade a live misbehaving hawk for two pretty wren eggs in the bush every day of their lives. For what reason, I don't know, and I don't care--but there are those teams that think the future is magic.
    Yeah, that didn't answer my question. 8 months ago you wanted to trade Bailey for Jennings. Even if Jennings had been healthy the Astros would still suck and he'd still be a free agent.

    Sp who do you want to trade him for now? Name a name or two.

    If trading Bailey can fix our pitching problems, or at least help us big time in that regard, then I'm all for it. You just haven't even begun to explain in any detail how getting your PTBNL is actually go do that.

    Again, trading away a potential great future is fine if it gets you a really good present. However, if it just gets you a mediocre present, all you've done is robbed yourself of the chance for greatness, while securing a slightly less crappy present.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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