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Thread: 3:10 to Yuma

  1. #31
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    I think Commanche Moon is coming on television

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  3. #32
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    it's "faro", you ignorant wretch.



    I love TOMBSTONE probably to an unhealthy level, and since we're talking about it I'll probably watch it this weekend. That being said, Costner's EARP gets a bad rap. It's very good, but it had the bad luck to be released within months of Tombstone. Costner is only ok as Wyatt, but Quaid brings the awesome as Doc. It's really a shame that neither Kilmer nor Quaid were nominated for an Oscar as both were THAT good. Would have been cool to see two actors get nominated the same year for the same character.

    Tombstone just rocks though.
    I thought Quaid did do a solid job as Holiday. And when I first saw the movie I didn't recognize him as Quaid.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  4. #33
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Go ahead. Skin that smokewagon and see what happens...
    Understand that Raisor will interpret that in a completely different way. He'd rather be your huckleberry.
    Last edited by GAC; 01-12-2008 at 06:16 AM.
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  5. #34
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Found it odd how Crowe's (Wade) character helped out Bale's (Evans)
    To those who haven't seen the movie yet.... STOP NOW!

    Wade, in a strange sort of way began to admire and envy Bale as a father/husband, and that even in the hard, impoverished way of life he endured, he still held onto his morals/principles. Remember - Wade's parents abandoned him as a small child and wanted nothing to do with him. So he never experienced the type of bond he was seeing between Bale and his son. And what he did see during the ordeal he felt Bale was doing only for show, and was trying to play the hero in front of his son. That's why Wade kept probing and testing that relationship and seeing if he could drive a wedge in it along the way.

    Remember the one scene when Wade was about to say something further about Bale's son and Bale cut him off and said "He's not like you!"

    But Bale kept trying because along the way he was gradually, one by one, eliminating the other members of this posse. The last "hurdle" standing was this father and his son. So he was playing psychological mind games with them.

    It was that scene where Wade says he's done "playing this game, and your son's not watching", and they began to fight. Wade had Bale on the floor choking him. What Bale said had a profound effect on Wade. Bale basically confesses that he's never been a hero, and then reveals a secret he has kept, even from his sons... his wooden leg, a subject Wade brought up throughout the journey, was lost from friendly fire, a story that would shame his sons, and that delivering Wade to Yuma would serve as an accomplishment his sons would admire.

    That is why Wade relented and helped trying to get him to the train. Remember earlier - Wade confessed to being a the prison in Yuma twice, and also escaping twice.

    So it was no big deal for him to go along and help this impoverished farmer out, and make him look good in front of his son by getting on that train when in all likelihood he'd probably be able to escape again. In the end - nobody really gets hurt, and he actually does do something GOOD (something he refused to admit existed within him to Bale's son earlier). As Wade boards, he even congratulates Evans. Mission accomplished. Yet at that moment, Wade's gang comes forth and throws a "wrench" in the plan. And even despite Wade's shouted order of "No!", shoots Evans several times and fatally wounds him. A shocked Wade then vengefully kills the members of his gang. What a twist.

    Wade then somberly boards the train and surrenders his weapon. As the train pulls away, he whistles for his horse, who perks up his ears and immediately trots after the train into the distance, leaving you with the impression that when the train gets to Yuma he won't be on it.
    Last edited by GAC; 01-12-2008 at 06:20 AM.
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  6. #35
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    I watched 3:10 last night and thought it was jaw-droppingly good. I think, over the test of time, it will be thought of as an equal to "Unforgiven."

    Until I read the DVD box, I had no idea that the screenplay for 3:10 was based on a short story by Elmore Leonard. Cool stuff.
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  7. #36
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    Oddly, the wife and I watched it last night too. I thought it was pretty good. They've been showing the original as a free "OnDemand" movie, I might have to watch that one for comparison.

    I think GAC's analysis of the final scene is right on.

    Good acting by Crowe and Homer Bailey too!
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  8. #37
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    SPOILERS AHEAD!!! STOP IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Wade, in a strange sort of way began to admire and envy Bale as a father/husband, and that even in the hard, impoverished way of life he endured, he still held onto his morals/principles.
    Really good synopsis, GAC. But I'm not sure that Wade admired Evans (Bale) as much as he wanted to be Evans. Wade's interaction with Evans' wife (see: green eyes). Comments about how he would treat Evans' wife better. Even the rift he attempted to create between Evans and his son was, IMHO, born more of wanting a son than anything else.

    Throughout the film, Wade attempted to test Evans as if Wade couldn't accept that Evans was truly a good man. The last test was the next-to-final scene and Evans passed. At that moment, I think that Wade felt he could actually be Evans, if only for a brief moment, if he could allow Evans to get him to the train. He was robbed of that moment by the actions of Charlie and the rest of his gang.

    To me, it was pretty apparent that Wade wanted out even prior to the last stage coach robbery. The drawing of the bird he left on the tree was an indication, IMHO. Ditto his bizarre behavior at the saloon, where he stays behind and asks the waitress to jump out the back window and go with him to Mexico. She rejects the idea, and instead of using the back window himself, he walks back into the saloon knowing that the law is back in town. It was as if he was trying to get caught. His actions were both reckless and stupid- the same type of behavior he had blamed, less than an hour earlier, for the demise of Tommy Darden. One way or another, I think that Wade knew he was done. To me, the barmaid's rejection just set the path.

    In the seconds after Evans was shot, I feel that Wade finally realized that his gang was part of the cost of his tradeoff (life of crime and riches rather than a hard, honest living with a wife and family). From my perspective, that's why he eliminated them. After all, if they wouldn't allow him to have at least a moment of being a good man, then how would they ever allow him to get out?
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  9. #38
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    Tombstone is my favorite movie of all-time. I even had a Tombstone Movie Poster in my various hole in the wall apartments in college. It seems tacky now but it fit right at the time. I think what makes Tombstone for me is the dialogue which Raisor and Steel have mentioned and the amount of great smaller roles in the film. I enjoyed the Clanton brothers, Billy Nilly, Texas Jack and Billy Bob Throton's small role. Chuck Heston is in it too, albeit for a moment. But, the dialogue in the movie is amazing. Everytime I watch it I find another gem that then becomes my favorite.

    Presently.

    [while watching a play in which Faust sells his soul to the Devil]
    Curly Bill: You know what I'd do? I'd take that deal 'n' crawfish, then drill that ol' Devil in the ass. What about you Juanito, what would you do?
    Johnny Ringo: I already did it.

    SPOILER ALERT:


    I rank 3:10 to Yuma right before Unforgiven with Tombstone being first. I remember little of 'Wyatt Earp", but do remember it to be extremely long. Also, I read on the FAQ on IMDB that someone suggested Ben Wade was the father of Christian Bales's characters son? I never got that impression. Very good movie with Ben Foster stealing the show as Wade's sidekick.

  10. #39
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    SPOILERS AHEAD!!! STOP IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM!!!





    Really good synopsis, GAC. But I'm not sure that Wade admired Evans (Bale) as much as he wanted to be Evans. Wade's interaction with Evans' wife (see: green eyes). Comments about how he would treat Evans' wife better. Even the rift he attempted to create between Evans and his son was, IMHO, born more of wanting a son than anything else.

    Throughout the film, Wade attempted to test Evans as if Wade couldn't accept that Evans was truly a good man. The last test was the next-to-final scene and Evans passed. At that moment, I think that Wade felt he could actually be Evans, if only for a brief moment, if he could allow Evans to get him to the train. He was robbed of that moment by the actions of Charlie and the rest of his gang.

    To me, it was pretty apparent that Wade wanted out even prior to the last stage coach robbery. The drawing of the bird he left on the tree was an indication, IMHO. Ditto his bizarre behavior at the saloon, where he stays behind and asks the waitress to jump out the back window and go with him to Mexico. She rejects the idea, and instead of using the back window himself, he walks back into the saloon knowing that the law is back in town. It was as if he was trying to get caught. His actions were both reckless and stupid- the same type of behavior he had blamed, less than an hour earlier, for the demise of Tommy Darden. One way or another, I think that Wade knew he was done. To me, the barmaid's rejection just set the path.

    In the seconds after Evans was shot, I feel that Wade finally realized that his gang was part of the cost of his tradeoff (life of crime and riches rather than a hard, honest living with a wife and family). From my perspective, that's why he eliminated them. After all, if they wouldn't allow him to have at least a moment of being a good man, then how would they ever allow him to get out?

    I agree with all of this, but I'd also add that Wade was having FUN. I think he wanted to see if Evans had the stones to get him on that train. He knew he could escape at anytime, up to and including the prison, but he wanted to see how determined Evans was.
    Wade was bored with the outlaw life and was using Evans as entertainment.
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  11. #40
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I agree with all of this, but I'd also add that Wade was having FUN. I think he wanted to see if Evans had the stones to get him on that train. He knew he could escape at anytime, up to and including the prison, but he wanted to see how determined Evans was.

    Wade was bored with the outlaw life and was using Evans as entertainment.
    Sure, although I think the character (Wade) was also disgusted with his associates on both sides of the conflict. Heck, he called his own gang "animals". And after watching the film again, that wasn't a complimentary term. Evans was likely the first good man he had ever been around for any period of time. But it took Wade time to confirm that Evans wasn't just a wolf in sheep's clothing.

    And the more I think about the ending of the film, the more I'm convinced that we should expect Wade to escape from the train and that his very next act would be to return to Evans' ranch to ensure that the railroad pays its debt to Evans' family. I believe the reason Wade didn't kill Evans prior to the final mad dash to the train station is that when Evans declared that he'd never been a hero, Wade realized that he hadn't either. Having that taken away from him (Evans dead and Evans' son rejecting him), ensuring the safety and survival of Evans' family is the only chance he'd have left to be even a little bit of the man he wanted to be, but couldn't.

    Really, I don't think a lot of folks realize just how good this movie is until they watch it three or four times and notice the very subtle undertones running through the film.
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  12. #41
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Sure, although I think the character (Wade) was also disgusted with his associates on both sides of the conflict. Heck, he called his own gang "animals". And after watching the film again, that wasn't a complimentary term. Evans was likely the first good man he had ever been around for any period of time. But it took Wade time to confirm that Evans wasn't just a wolf in sheep's clothing.

    And the more I think about the ending of the film, the more I'm convinced that we should expect Wade to escape from the train and that his very next act would be to return to Evans' ranch to ensure that the railroad pays its debt to Evans' family. I believe the reason Wade didn't kill Evans prior to the final mad dash to the train station is that when Evans declared that he'd never been a hero, Wade realized that he hadn't either. Having that taken away from him (Evans dead and Evans' son rejecting him), ensuring the safety and survival of Evans' family is the only chance he'd have left to be even a little bit of the man he wanted to be, but couldn't.

    Really, I don't think a lot of folks realize just how good this movie is until they watch it three or four times and notice the very subtle undertones running through the film.
    Completely agree with this. It's what I was getting at with the first post of this thread. The more I thought about what the ending meant, the more I liked it.

  13. #42
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    Very Good points SD and Raisor.

    And I do agree Raisor - I sensed that Wade was toying with them also, and could escape at any time. But that mentality changed as their ordeal progressed and Wade saw Evan for who he really was. That he was no phoney. Wade began to sympathize with him, even though he wouldn't open up and admit it. A hardened and highly reputable badman couldn't show that. But he began to see something he envied and wanted. So he continued to "tag along" to discover more.

    You got two guys here in Wade and Evans, in which both of their lives/career paths were ones of hard knocks, trials, and difficulty. Just on different sides of the tracks so to speak. IMHO, both felt they had been dealt a "bad hand", meaning, they got screwed undeservingly by the system (society)...... Evans was left with a bad leg from the war, which was a burden for him when it came to adequately providing for his family. I liked what he said about the government, whom he was also bitter towards, when it came to compensation for that war injury.... "They didn't pay me for my leg, they paid me to go away." Then he had a local, whom he owed money, burning down his barn and trying to force him off his land. He felt, in a very misguided way, that money would provide the solution. But later on he discovered differently.

    Wade felt he was given a raw deal from the very beginning when his father was killed when he was born, and then his mother abandoned him. Therefore, he was never given the chance at a normal life like most people. No one ever looked after or provided for him. He had to learn to do it for himself the best he could. And that led him to a life of a criminal. It was a life he grew to not care for, even despised deep down inside;but didn't know how to escape because that is all he ever knew. Until he met Evan (and son).

    And I think that is why he was testing Evan so vehemently. He was really testing his lifestyle to see if it was all "show" or valid before he made the jump, because his life up to this point had been one of uncertainty/uneveness. And he was finally convinced of that, in that final fight with Evan, when he had him on the floor, and Evan made the confession. Wade realized his "going along" provided a way out, redemption, for both of these men. Both men would get what they wanted out of this ordeal.

    SD is right about Wade's gang IMO. Wade really, deep down, hated his gang (animals), and in a strange sort of way felt his association with them, and their very existence, would prevent him from ever finding a way out. And their appearance and "intervention" at the end, when they maliciously kill Evan, and thwart Wade's plan, convinced Wade of this fact. That's why he retaliated and killed them all. He could never "escape"as long as they existed.

    They showed a close up shot of the gun/holster that Wade used just prior to killing the gang. Were they his? Anyone notice they had a cross on them? I was trying to figure out if this had any significance.

    I agree that this is a movie that has to be watched several times. An excellent movie IMO. It was alot like a previous Bale movie - The Prestige. I loved that movie too,and bought the DVD. I'm gaining newfound respect for Bale as an actor.
    Last edited by GAC; 01-13-2008 at 05:00 AM.
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  14. #43
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    I agree that this is a movie that has to be watched several times. An excellent movie IMO. It was alot like a previous Bale movie - The Prestige. I loved that movie too,and bought the DVD. I'm gaining newfound respect for Bale as an actor.
    If you haven't seen "The Machinist", I highly recommend it. Bale's exceptional in it. For an action movie, "Equalibrium" is also pretty decent, even though it tries to be a little bit more than what it is.
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  15. #44
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    AGAIN, MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD. GO NO FURTHER IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THIS FILM BUT WANT TO!



    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    They showed a close up shot of the gun/holster that Wade used just prior to killing the gang. Were they his? Anyone notice they had a cross on them? I was trying to figure out if this had any significance.
    Yep. That was his gun. In the saloon scene where he was intially caught, he warned that it was cursed. He was right, of course, because every character (other than Wade) who touched that gun was killed during the film. I find it interesting that in the final scene, Wade's gun was touched by three of the four remaining gang members as it was passed forward to Wade. There was really no need for that. Did the other gang members hold the gun at some point in time? We don't know, but I think that was a suggestive setup.

    I think the significance of the cross on the hilt became clear when Wade told Evans about how him mother abandoned him. If we want to go all psychological, it could be argued that every time he used it to kill someone, he was subconsciously using the Bible his mother left him with to kill her over and over again. Yes, Wade cited love for his mother as the reason for killing Byron McElroy, but I'd suggest that McElroy was killed simply for bringing up Wade's mother. And I also think it's interesting that the last words we heard prior to Wade wiping out his own gang was Charlie Prince's description of Evans: "For a one-legged rancher, he was one tough son of a *****." There are any number of far better lines to write for Prince's character at that moment. But that's the one they used. Interesting, IMHO.

    I felt the close-up of the gun in the final scene was significant as Wade finally realized that instead of killing her, he should be destroying what she basically forced him to become as symbolized by his gang. I also think it's important to note that Wade never mentions his weapon after it's initially taken away, but in the final scence (after Will Evans stands down), Wade carefully collects the gun and holster and hands it off prior to walking into the cell. When Wade picked that gun up, I feel that he finally figured out that his behavior was his "cross to bear". He could have, after all, simply left it on the ground. By handing it off, that may have been his way of saying that it was finally over, but I think it isn't for a couple reasons.

    I'm going to talk about religious symbolism for a moment, but only in the context of this film. A couple items of interest:

    1. Near the end of the film, Will Evans finds that Wade has drawn a pic of Dan Evans on the page of the bible that immediately precedes "Genesis". The interesting thing is that the drawing was produced on a page with text while a completely textless page is right next to it. I don't think this is an accident.

    2. Note the two men in the train cell Wade joins when he enters for the final time. We don't see them at all (due to camera angle) when he intially enters the cell. But we do see them in the background when he guns down his gang. Both are older men and both have long beards. Probably not the usual type one might see on a prison train to Yuma. One might only be able to see this on Blu-Ray, but as Wade grabs Prince for the last time before putting the second shot into Prince's heart, the man on the left leans over to the man on the right and says something (we can't hear it). Wade enters the train after Will decides not to kill him, hands off his weapon, and enters the cell. The man on the right (with the smaller hat <same style> and shorter beard) gives up his seat upon Wade entering the cell and then Wade sits to to the left-hand side of the remaining individual. If the remaining seated passenger is who I think he might be for the purposes of this movie, then Wade has good cause to whistle for his horse because that's where the Archangel Gabriel should be sitting.

    IMHO, symbolism is pretty darned heavy in 3:10 to Yuma. Even "Charlie Prince's" (Ben Foster) last name is symbolic as it calls into play a dynamic of someone who desperately wants to be the King (Wade), but who's also incredibly petulant and prideful. Prince fashioned himself as something akin to Wade's "son", but really only acted based on his own greed, pride, and determination to ascend to the "throne". Even after members of his own gang noted that it was Wade's own fault that he got caught for making a mistake (basically the rationale for Wade killing Tommy Darden), Prince's only response was "You forgot what he done for us." Wade himself pretty much layed out the rules by that point, he broke them, and it wasn't Prince's loyalty or love that drove him to continue the chase.

    During the gunfight scenes in Contention City, Prince's character was chided by one of his own gang that he wouldn't get to use his Schofield pistols. He immediately began looking for excuses to shoot people. His boss was in danger of being shot prior to that moment, but Prince only became involved after he realized that he might not be able to contribute even though he gave some of the folks he shot incentive to put Wade in danger. IMHO, the only reason Prince was trying to keep Wade alive was that he was his meal ticket who could eventually hand over the "throne" to Prince.

    Honestly this film does get better and better the more times you see it. It's like one of those hidden gems that has details impossible to pick up after even two viewings. For pure enjoyment factor, Tombstone is still in the lead, but after a few viewings "3:10 to Yuma" simply thrashes "Unforgiven" in an entierly unreasonable fashion.
    Last edited by SteelSD; 01-13-2008 at 04:32 AM.
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  16. #45
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    Re: 3:10 to Yuma

    Of the modern westerns (Post John Wayne era) I like Tombstone, Silverado and 3:10 to Yuma in that order. Unforgiven and Pale Rider were both disappointing IMO and were largely popular due to an audience that was hungry for the Nostalgia of Eastwood in a Western. Broken Trail and Open Range were both very good as well.

    My question of the day: The line "I'm your Huckleberry" was perfect in Tombstone but what is the origin? Is it some phrase that only I'd never heard before? Was it a popular phrase in the 1800's? Is it something Doc Holiday was actually known to say? Or was it just made up for the movie? Anyone know? I get the gist of it from the context, but what is it supposed to mean exactly? Why is "I'm your huckleberry" supposed to mean your fight is with me or pick on me or whatever?
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