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Thread: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

  1. #16
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    So next time you get stopped for speeding or some other violation will you be opposed when the cop says:

    "Um, Mr WVRed, we can safely assume you have been speeding for, "awhile", so we are going to have to give you a ticket for every time you have gotten behind the wheel. Please wait patiently while I write you out 15,678 tickets for speeding."

    Sound OK to you WV?

    In what other aspects of life do we catch someone doing something once and then go back and assume they have been doing it all along? Why should this be any different?

    I would not be opposed to them having to give up the W. No way it happens though. However talk of taking away their Super Bowl wins is poposterous. Who would be the champion in that case? Why would the NFC champion that lost to the Pats have any more right to the title than the AFC runner-up who lost to the Pats or the team from the previous round that lost to the Pats or a team that missed the play-offs because of a loss or two to the Pats?
    This is a good argument, but I'm not sure we know enough to say that it applies to the Patriots.

    Perhaps they were warned about the Green Bay incident.

    Certainly if a cop pulls you over and lets you off with a warning, and then catches you again, the cops going to be pissed and prosecute you to the full extent he's allowed.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

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  3. #17
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    This is a good argument, but I'm not sure we know enough to say that it applies to the Patriots.

    Perhaps they were warned about the Green Bay incident.

    Certainly if a cop pulls you over and lets you off with a warning, and then catches you again, the cops going to be pissed and prosecute you to the full extent he's allowed.
    Would that prosecution force you to forfeit any monies that you might have earned if you may or may not have been speeding during the course of employment?
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  4. #18
    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    Sounds like a candidate for "worst person in the NFL".

  5. #19
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    Here's a quote from a Jets' player after the game:
    "(Tom Brady) seemed like he knew what we were doing," safety Kerry Rhodes said.

    Hmm...I wonder why?
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  6. #20
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Would that prosecution force you to forfeit any monies that you might have earned if you may or may not have been speeding during the course of employment?
    All I'm saying is that cops in many states can arrest you for driving without a seat belt. Most cops in such states exercise discretion and decide to either give you a citation or if you're really lucky let you off with a warning.

    Likewise, Roger Goodell has a LOT of discretion here. The NFL owners have no union, and as far as I know there's no precedent for this sort of thing.

    We know that Goodell warned all the teams about this. If he also warned the Patriots, personally, then I imagine he'll prosecute them to the full extent he thinks he can get away with.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  7. #21
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    I think taking away their super bowls might be a little extreme, although I really don't doubt that this was probably used.

    1st Round pick gone, heavily fined. I think taking their win away might be a little much. Would it be possible to force them to lose any home field advantage they might get in the playoffs?

    If you think about it though, since the Pats have been good (years and years)... they seem to always have the perfect "strategy" and seem to know exactly what the other team intends to do. I think most of the credit has went to Belicheck, but who knows? What if they have been cheating the whole time? IMO a below average team could win a super bowl if they knew what the other team was doing. Not really saying they've always been doing this, but it seems reasonable.

    Just another reason to hate the Pats.

  8. #22
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    All I'm saying is that cops in many states can arrest you for driving without a seat belt. Most cops in such states exercise discretion and decide to either give you a citation or if you're really lucky let you off with a warning.

    Likewise, Roger Goodell has a LOT of discretion here. The NFL owners have no union, and as far as I know there's no precedent for this sort of thing.

    We know that Goodell warned all the teams about this. If he also warned the Patriots, personally, then I imagine he'll prosecute them to the full extent he thinks he can get away with.
    Gotcha, and in the same turn, you can't retroactively punish an entire organization for something they may or may not have been doing.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  9. #23
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    All I'm saying is that cops in many states can arrest you for driving without a seat belt. Most cops in such states exercise discretion and decide to either give you a citation or if you're really lucky let you off with a warning.

    Likewise, Roger Goodell has a LOT of discretion here. The NFL owners have no union, and as far as I know there's no precedent for this sort of thing.

    We know that Goodell warned all the teams about this. If he also warned the Patriots, personally, then I imagine he'll prosecute them to the full extent he thinks he can get away with.
    Its my understanding that Goodell works for the owners. Therefor his job depends on what the owners think of his decisions. If this has happened before and is documented that there was a complaint then this could mean trouble for the Pats. First of all there are going to be 31 upset owners if the find out that they have been doing this for a while. You are going to have 3 very upset organizations in the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins. They play the Pats 3 times a year and would be the most effected. As a bengal fan if you found out that what the Pats were doing effected your game last year wouldn't that piss you off because a W or L in that game determined whether you made the playoffs or not. There is a huge effect off this if it is true. What happens if the Pats beat a team by this form of cheating which took away a home playoff game. How much revenue would that take away from a club. Hopefully there is a ground swell of complaints from the owners and organizatoins that Goodell is forced to act in a very strict manner.

  10. #24
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Its my understanding that Goodell works for the owners. Therefor his job depends on what the owners think of his decisions.
    Exactly. You hit on some major points of the commissioner paradox.

    Marge Schott was one of Bud Selig's 30 bosses, but Bud Selig banned her from ownership.

    Commissioners have to be leaders and politicians at the same time. They have to make decisions that seem ethical and transparent, but they can't go too far, or they'll lose power.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    Based on the discussions I've heard on NY sports talk radio, the worst punishment the Pats would face is losing a draft pick, possible more than one. They could get away with just a fine. Depends on what the league investigation turns up.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  12. #26
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Gotcha, and in the same turn, you can't retroactively punish an entire organization for something they may or may not have been doing.
    Gotcha?

    You most certainly can punish a party that had plentiful notice more harshly than you would punish a party with lesser notice.

    Nothing unethical or illegal about that at all.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  13. #27
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    This is a good argument, but I'm not sure we know enough to say that it applies to the Patriots.

    Perhaps they were warned about the Green Bay incident.

    Certainly if a cop pulls you over and lets you off with a warning, and then catches you again, the cops going to be pissed and prosecute you to the full extent he's allowed.
    No argument here. That is what I expect to happen. But the full extent of the law isn't taking away their 3 Super Bowls. Not even close. Nothing is done to the team when a guy from a winning team is caught being on drugs. So why should the team face such an extreme penalty for something someone who doesn't even wear pads did?

  14. #28
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    The league is finding the Patriots guilty of this. The league is considering sanctions including that the Patriots may lose multiple draft choices.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3014677

    NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has determined that the New England Patriots violated league rules Sunday when they videotaped defensive signals by the New York Jets' coaches, according to league sources.

    NFL security officials confiscated a camera and videotape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on the New England sidelines when it was suspected he was recording the Jets' defensive signals. Sources say the visual evidence confirmed the suspicion.

    Goodell is considering severe sanctions, including the possibility of docking the Patriots "multiple draft picks" because it is the competitive violation in the wake of a stern warning to all teams since he became commissioner, the sources said. The Patriots have been suspected in previous incidents.

    The Patriots will be allowed an opportunity to present their case by Friday, sources said, most likely via the telephone.

    The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during Sunday's game, sources said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game.

    Goodell is expected to have a decision no later than Friday but that is not set in stone.

    The league refused comment but did confirm Monday that they were reviewing a possible violation by the Patriots.

  15. #29
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    Excellent! These upcoming Bellichick press conferences should be a hoot.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  16. #30
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

    I'm not that football-savvy. Maybe someone else can help me.

    This is what I understand.

    - Patriots film Defensive signals.
    - Patriots see resulting formation/setup/play
    - Once matched...
    - Patriots see signal
    - Patriots know which play is being called.

    Is this a correct assessment of what we are talking about?
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com


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