Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

[MWM]

Last time I checked, my driving on the roads wasn't a competitive endeavor generating billios of dollars of revenue based on the principle of fair competition. It's apples and asparagus.

This is going to cast a huge shadow over the Pats success this year or even the last couple of years. KNowing what the defense is doing is a HUGE advantage. This makes me lose all respect for an organization I had a lot of it for.

Heck, if it's determined that Bellechick was behind it, I think he should be suspended for the rest of the year.

[Reds Fanatic]

I'm not that football-savvy. Maybe someone else can help me.

This is what I understand.

- Patriots film Defensive signals.
- Patriots see resulting formation/setup/play
- Once matched...
- Patriots see signal
- Patriots know which play is being called.

Is this a correct assessment of what we are talking about?

That is exactly what we are talking about. There is no reason to think they have not tried this before so they could know the signals different teams use to call plays which would give them a huge advantage. See the play called by the defense then the coordinator talks to Brady over the headset tells him what to expect so they run a play to counter that defense.

[MWM]

That is exactly what we are talking about. There is no reason to think they have not tried this before so they could know the signals different teams use to call plays which would give them a huge advantage. See the play called by the defense then the coordinator talks to Brady over the headset tells him what to expect so they run a play to counter that defense.

Yep, and if they're able to do this with accuracy, I don't think you can underestimate how big of an advantage this is, especially with a QB as smart as Brady.

[KronoRed]

If the Pats are doing this I find it hard to believe other teams aren't doing it as well.

[RBA]

If the Pats are doing this I find it hard to believe other teams aren't doing it as well.

But if the Raiders are doing it, they are so bad it's not even helping them.

[MaineRed]

Call it what you want, it is ridiculous to think Super Bowl trophies are going to be returned over this. It doesn't matter how much money is generated or who is involved, in our society we don't penalize people for past crimes that we can't prove. When some wacko gets arrested for murdering 8 people, we don't just assume that he must be responsible for other unsolved crimes. We have to prove it. We need evidence. It is the same thing here, apples and apples.

There is no proof that the Pats did this during their Super Bowl wins or other play-off wins. No matter how much you believe they had to be doing it all along, it needs to be proven before you can hand out such drastic penalties. I don't think taking away the win over the Jets is out of the question at all. As I said earlier I don't expect it to happen but I also don't think it would be unfair.

What I find amazing is that the Pats were trying to pull this off on the road. Wouldn't it be much easier to spy at home where you could easily conceal a cameraman?

[RBA]

I would blackball the cameraman until I'm satisfied he's giving me all he knows.

[WVRed]

So next time you get stopped for speeding or some other violation will you be opposed when the cop says:

"Um, Mr WVRed, we can safely assume you have been speeding for, "awhile", so we are going to have to give you a ticket for every time you have gotten behind the wheel. Please wait patiently while I write you out 15,678 tickets for speeding."

Sound OK to you WV?

In what other aspects of life do we catch someone doing something once and then go back and assume they have been doing it all along? Why should this be any different?

I would not be opposed to them having to give up the W. No way it happens though. However talk of taking away their Super Bowl wins is poposterous. Who would be the champion in that case? Why would the NFC champion that lost to the Pats have any more right to the title than the AFC runner-up who lost to the Pats or the team from the previous round that lost to the Pats or a team that missed the play-offs because of a loss or two to the Pats?

You could make that same argument to defend Shoeless Joe Jackson or Pete Rose for betting on sports and changing the outcome of the games in which they played.

If a team is blatantly cheating, they should be dealt with severely. This is my suggestion.

1.Bill Belicheck is suspended the rest of this season.

2.The Patriots lose three first round picks. If the Minnesota Timberwolves can be stripped of five draft picks for what happened with Joe Smith, this should be equal punishment.

3.See how far back this has been going on, full on investigation. If the Patriots had been doing this ever since Belicheck became head coach, then the Patriots should be stripped of the three titles. Using Pete Rose as an example, if he can be omitted from the HOF even though he holds the record for hits, then the Patriots run can be omitted as well.

If you want an example, see the death penalty to SMU.

[traderumor]

This is a serious "integrity of the game" infraction. I think a forfeit plus a high round draft pick is more fitting punishment considering the crime. And I don't see how Bellichick cannot be involved. While we're here, I've thought that there is a lot of potential for corruption in the sideline formation photos that are waiting on the respective units when they come off the field. The more you introduce technology like that, it removes the human element and reduces the spirit of fair athletic competition.

[Dom Heffner]

I would blackball the cameraman until I'm satisfied he's giving me all he knows.

Give him the Casino Royale treatment. Just tear out the bottom of a chair and let 'er rip.

[SteelSD]

Yep, and if they're able to do this with accuracy, I don't think you can underestimate how big of an advantage this is, especially with a QB as smart as Brady.

Absolutely. The Patriots have long been a team somewhat short on talent who've produced results based on having better gameplanning than their opponents.

krono makes a good point that other teams should be punished as well if they've been caught doing this and I'd certainly support that (even if it was my fav team). However, the Pats have quite obviously been doing this for quite some time. It's likely affected division championships, playoffs and, potentially, Super Bowls. No Super Bowl trophies are likely to be returned over this, but count me as someone who won't possibly count the Pats' run as anything resembling a "dynasty" at this point.

Do I think they should forfeit a game? Yep. Won't happen, but that would be fair for starters. I'd support a penalty that would see the Pats lose their 1st and 2nd rounders in 2008 plus their first rounder for 2009. Next, if a link to Belicheck can be established, he should be suspended indefinitely as should any coach who used the information garnered from the cheating. Lastly, if a link can be established to Tom Brady considering the radio frequency issues noted, then he should be suspended for at least five games.

You can't erase the past even if it needs to be marginalized at this point (and it really does). But what the league can do is send a strong message that the Patriots are no longer the golden child of a league that prides itself on parity and fair play.

[Caveat Emperor]

I'm completely in favor of making an example out of the Patriots here in much the same way that the league has made examples out of players like Pacman Jones and Chris Henry.

My suggestion would be a complete forfeit of their Day 1 draft selections in the 2008 draft and dropping their Day 2 picks to the bottom of every round (they pick last in Round 4, last in Round 5, etc.).

Any coach found to be complicit in this process should also face minimum of a 4 game suspension, during which time they are to have no contact with the team, coaches or players.

Zero tolerance for players should mean zero tolerance for coaches and organizations as well.

[Caseyfan21]

I think Belicheck should get suspended since he is the head coach and should have control over his sideline. Give him a 4-5 game suspension that bars him from participating or doing anything with the team. Then maybe take a couple draft picks as well.

I have a feeling the Pats will end up losing maybe 2 lower draft picks at the worst. The Pats are the NFL's golden child and the league probably wants this to pass over as quickly as possible.

We'll see if Goodell is really the tough guy he's made out to be in this situation.

[cincinnati chili]

I don't think Goodell wants to draw attention to this by suspending Belichick or forcing the return of Super Bowl trophies.

I think he'll make an example of the Patriots to the extent that it eradicates this behavior permanently without turning this into a lingering scandal. Michael Vick is enough.

[M2]

Umm, isn't anyone here familiar with a little thing called the Patriot Act? Per an act of Congress, New England's allowed to do this. They've also been looking into what books Eric Mangini checks out from the library. If anything they should be awarded an extra win for keeping the division safe from insurgents.