Turn Off Ads?
Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 171

Thread: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

  1. #31
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    5,328

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I see absolutely nothing wrong with replacing a human function with something that can be more reliably done through an automated system. Bottom line is that the only reason umps/refs exist is to enforce the rules of the game. They are not the game itself. If you can improve the accuracy and consistency with which the rules are enforced, without otherwise negatively affecting the game, then by all means do it.

    I'm sorry, but I do not see umpiring as a core part of the game that should not be changed, particularly for the sake of improvement. If we can prove that a computer can call balls & strikes more accurately than a person, then why wouldn't we want that? I refuse to believe that the game is better for having inconsistent strike zones and incorrect calls.

    However, this doesn't mean that the umpire is gone. The umpire is still there to make the calls that a computer cannot. This includes plays at the bases, catches vs. traps, and behavioral issues. Heck, you can still have the ump announce the ball/strike calls -- just have the quest-tec send him a signal on his counter. Maintaining the flow of the game is important. There is a legitimate argument about not moving to computer when it cannot make decisions at the same speed as an ump. But bottom line, the umps exist to enforce rules. The goal should be to do so as well as possible and they should have whatever tools at their disposal allow them to do so.
    Great post. You have me on board. It just makes too much sense.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #32
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    10,789

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    Does the computer change its zone if the player changes his zone during an AB??What would keep someone like Adam Dunn going to a Pete Rose type crouch when he has a 3-0 count in order to get a walk??
    Not all umps called Pete Rose and Rickey Henderson "by the book." Some umps routinely called the high strike on these guys, and they probably should have. I don't blame either one of them for stretching (or crouching) the rules to their own advantage, but they were probably frustrating the purpose of the knees-to-armpits rule. They did it to psych out the pitchers (fine) and to confuse the umpires (not fine).

    I imagine they'd have to do it with some sort of height matrix. The league would measure the guys at spring training. If they were 6'2", the machine would uniformly call balls/strikes the same for 6'2" guys.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  4. #33
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Back in Florida
    Posts
    8,142

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post

    I imagine they'd have to do it with some sort of height matrix. The league would measure the guys at spring training. If they were 6'2", the machine would uniformly call balls/strikes the same for 6'2" guys.
    You could measure every player accurately and use his profile when he came to bat.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com

  5. #34
    Yay!
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Middletown, Ohio
    Posts
    7,418

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    You could measure every player accurately and use his profile when he came to bat.
    What would prevent a hitter from crouching a little deeper when he was being "measured?"

    And then what if someone makes a significant change in his stance during the course of the season?

    Would you also measure every player in professional baseball on the chance that they might be called up?
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  6. #35
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,431

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    If a computer judge balls and strikes, I think there will be pitchers who throw pitches that would normally be called balls but trick the computer into calling them strikes.

  7. #36
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Sultanes de Monterrey
    Posts
    4,183

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    If the ball passes through the strike zone you're not exactly tricking the computer. The problem is with those pitches being called balls in the first place.

  8. #37
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,123

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    I think this would be a horriable idea. Part of a baseball game is adjusting to the umpire. I have no problem if a strike zone call or two is missed in a game. All I want is consistancy. Personally I enjoy the human error factor of the game. I think close judgement calls make being a fan even better. It gives you something to talk about. When you take human error out of the game IMO you make the game a little less interesting and a little worse off.

  9. #38
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    4,136

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Several people have stated that the computer system 'would be better' or 'elminates the errors' yet there been nothing offered here that substantiates these claims.
    Which specific "computer system" has been advocated to be implemented in this thread? Of course a computer system "would be better" or "eliminate the errors" ... otherwise nobody would bother to implement it.

    Its not about 'get off my lawn' (which is an arrogent and condesncending pile of crap anyway) its about actually acheiving the intended benefit.
    Once you get your undies out of the drastically unreasonable bunch they are in, go ahead and toss the in the wash while you are at it.

    No one has provided any evidence that the existing systems wouldn't have their own issues with adjustment, callibration , accuracy, interfearence and claims of fudging.
    No one has provided any evidence that any future system that is implemented would have any issues with adjustments, callibration, accuracy, interference, and claims of fudging.

    Without an actuall improvment in the accuracy of calls, you are just replacing one problem for another.
    Keep on tilting at those windmills.

    GL
    Last edited by gonelong; 09-11-2007 at 04:08 PM.

  10. #39
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    16,601

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    You want to see a system that works, look at tennis.

    It's a resounding success.

    Let the umpires still make the indication of ball or strike, prompted by some kind of electronic interface. That way they get to keep their little signature calls.

    But turn the decision making over to the machines. I'm beyond sick at seeing things like 10 years of the Atlanta Braves pitching staff getting the six inch outside strike because of their reputation.

    Level the playing field. Make the calls accurate. The umps still get to call all the plays except balls and strikes.

    And use instant replay on disputed home run calls. It's much faster than a 15 minute argument.

    Clint Hurdle was on XM today and had a great quote on this subject.

    I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like "tradition is a great thing, but sometimes it comes at the expense of vision."

    It takes vision to make this change, not dogged adherence to tradition.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  11. #40
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    4,728

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    I think instead of totally blowing up the way a game is called by replacing humans with computers you would be better off using the computer to gauge how well a umpire calls a game and use this gauge to better help the umpire improve his zone. I have forever wanted to see MLB umpires that dont perform sent down to the minor leagues just as the players are sent down when they dont perform. As with alot of union jobs the umpires that are protected by their very strong union dont have the incentive to improve their work. They become lazy and complacent because they have strong job security and very little if anything will happen if they dont perform their jobs adequately.

    The players union will be more likely to accept umpires demoted to the minors before they would ever be for computers replacing their umpires. Lets just tweak the system and not totally blow it up.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  12. #41
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Back in Florida
    Posts
    8,142

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    It takes vision to make this change, not dogged adherence to tradition.
    Voice of experience there.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com

  13. #42
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,159

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    The strike zone is the strike zone. Hitters and pitchers deserve to know exactly where it is and how it will be called. Whatever system can do the best job of calling it accurately is the one I want.

    Seems to me that an electronically-monitored zone is an inevitability. You'll still need an umpire as a backup in case the electronic system fails. I think RFS has it right (loved the tennis analogy). Let the umpire signal ball or strike, but have the computer system feed him the information.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  14. #43
    Haunted by walks
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    6,580

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    We'll probably be complaining that the Diebold programmer set up the ESPN RoboUmp metrics to favor the Yankees and Red Sox.

  15. #44
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    4,136

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    The strike zone is the strike zone. Hitters and pitchers deserve to know exactly where it is and how it will be called. Whatever system can do the best job of calling it accurately is the one I want.
    Agreed.

    Seems to me that an electronically-monitored zone is an inevitability.
    Without a doubt. Might as well get there sooner rather than later.

    You'll still need an umpire as a backup in case the electronic system fails. I think RFS has it right (loved the tennis analogy). Let the umpire signal ball or strike, but have the computer system feed him the information.
    An excellent idea from RFS. The umpires will still have a feeling for the strikezone since they will still be seeing it and could be an adequate replacement in a pinch.

    GL

  16. #45
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,441

    Re: Neyer: Computers calling Balls and Strikes!

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong View Post
    Once you get your undies out of the drastically unreasonable bunch they are in, go ahead and toss the in the wash while you are at it.


    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong View Post
    No one has provided any evidence that any future system that is implemented would have any issues with adjustments, callibration, accuracy, interference, and claims of fudging.
    Your lack of understanding of mechanical/electronic devices is apparent. ALL machines require adjustements and callabration to maintain their accuracy especially those that measure things. Many machines, especially those with electronics are subject to interfearence and outright malfunction.

    That's not to say a system could be developed that greatly reduces the chances for error or "fudgery" but it might be helpfull to understand machines before day-dreaming about what is possible.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 09-11-2007 at 04:24 PM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25