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Thread: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

  1. #1
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    I've seen a lot of discussion about this guy lately, and rightly so. He's having a really nice offensive year. He's as slick a fielder as the team has. He's still just 26 years old and could take a step forward offensively in 2008.

    I've also seen some interesting counter-arguments. Many posters point to the number of outs he makes and to the fact that he's not really much of a run producer.

    Here's what I'm wondering: is it time to trade Brandon Phillips?

    For all of his good qualities, it looks like this is as high as his value will ever get. We have some capable replacements already on the team (Keppinger, Freel) and landing a good SP could really help this team next year. If Phillips keeps playing this way, he's going to price himself out of the team's range anyway, right?

    Thoughts?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  3. #2
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    No player is untouchable, It all depends on the return.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  4. #3
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    Seems every single time the Reds have a player who either does well (Phillips) or has a ton of upside (Encarnacion), someone suggests he should be traded.

    I don't understand this. Is it to get pitching (which is never a guarantee, not good pitching anyway)? Is it to save money (the Reds don't appear to be as destitute as many think)? Or is it just because?

    If all the good players are traded, what's left?
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  5. #4
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    I don't necessarily think we should trade him, but I do think he is our most marketable trading chip right now. He's young, cheap, and productive. His current statistics make him look like a much better player than he actually is (I've been convinced of this by other posters on other threads, so I'll have to ask for back up there).

    Don't get me wrong, I like BP a great deal. I'm just wracking my brain trying to figure out how this team can deal for pitching in the offseason, and he seems like the best candidate. Dunn is too expensive to trade for a good return right now (and should probably be re-signed anyway since he is our most productive player); Bruce should be perhaps the most untouchable player of all; EdE is the only 3B we have in the pipeline for a long while; I'd prefer not to deal Votto since he has a chance to be a real power-hitting 1B (something we haven't had in years); almost anyone else on the roster wouldn't land us a bag of balls.

    There aren't any good FA pitchers out there this offseason, and I'm not sure the FO is inclined to go that route anyway. To me, that leaves two options: stay the course as we are with minor adjustments (the most probable strategy, I admit) or trade Brandon Phillips--not because he should be traded, but because someone should be traded in order to avoid a repeat of 2007.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  6. #5
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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    You want to rebuild this club with guys like Phillips.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  7. #6
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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    More than likely a trade of Phillips would result in a diminishment of value.

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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    No player is untouchable, It all depends on the return.
    Harang would have to bring a heck of a return. I can't imagine that he's dealable, but everybody else is out on the lot hoping somebody will kick a tire.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  9. #8
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    Keep Brandon Phillips, there are very few better second basemen.

    We need strong defense up the middle. His 30/30 skills are real, and although we would all like a little better OBP, and his number of hitting into doubleplays is second in the league, I still like him.

    That being said, if the right young pitcher were offered, I suppose we would have to listen. But the truth is, good young pitching is rarely available.
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  10. #9
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    I believe some of your thinking is somewhat flawed. I agree with those who say that no one should be untouchable, I think they are also correct in that we should be building around someone like Phillips. Frankly, he's part of our young corps of players (that would also include the veteran Adam Dunn, still just 27 years old this season). You are correct that to improve pitching, we'll have to give up something, hence the camp that agrees that no player is untouchable.

    What I see as somewhat flawed (I'm really trying to temper this):

    Ryan Freel: It's too early to know whether Freel can come back. While he probably can, will he be the same player. This question also applies as to whether Freel is moveable himself. Neither of these questions can be known until next spring in all likelihood.

    Jeff Keppinger: I like Keppinger a lot, as many do, but I think I agree with those who suggest that Keppinger is more valuable to us off the bench. We could be wrong, but I like a bench that has Keppinger, Hopper and Cantu on it.

    Adam Dunn: I'm not advocating trading Dunn; I'd like to see him signed to a long term contract. My disagreement is with your assertion that Dunn's contract is too expensive to trade. He's difficult to trade because of the present structure of the contract - something I think both Dunn, his agent and the Reds wanted. But there is no way his contract is too expensive, even for us - it's a very competitive amount even picking up the option (which we will do - he's not going to be permitted to walk - draft picks in MLB are not the same as in the NFL or the NBA).

    I think the player most likely to be traded will be Griffey. While he holds the cards as a 10/5 player, I think he would agree to go to a team with a legitimate shot at the post-season. Whether that happens in the off-season or before next year's trade deadline, I just don't know. We may not want to move him until we see how Bruce performs in spring or the start of next season. I would like an outfield of Adam Dunn, Josh Hamilton and Jay Bruce. Add in an infield of EE, Alex Gonzalez, Brandon Phillips and Joey Votto and that's not a bad starting line-up (the weakest link would be at catcher).

  11. #10
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    Krivsky seems to value middle-infield defense. I can't imagine him unloading his best 2B unless the return is spectacular.
    /r/reds

  12. #11
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    Phillips is currently 9th in VORPr (the rate version of VORP) for MLB 2B. His 39 VORP makes him roughly equivilent to Chad Billingsley, Andy Pettite, Cole Hamels, and Matt Cain.

    Factor in his superior defense, and you have a pretty darn valuable player. I'm not against trading him at all, but you'd need to get really solid value for him. I wouldn't be ready to move down to, say, Keppinger, or Freel unless a significantly hard to pass up offer presented itself.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Phillips is currently 9th in VORPr (the rate version of VORP) for MLB 2B. His 39 VORP makes him roughly equivilent to Chad Billingsley, Andy Pettite, Cole Hamels, and Matt Cain.
    OK, trade him for Billingsley, Hamels or Cain.

    The reason you trade someone who is good is if you value the return more.

    Phillips may be a very good player, but his offense is over rated, and he's one of the few guys we have that could bring that young, cheap (and good)starter.

  14. #13
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    No player is untouchable, It all depends on the return.
    This should be a universal truth.

  15. #14
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    This should be a universal truth.
    I second that!!
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Re: Should the Reds trade Brandon Phillips?

    Any player should be "on the block" for the right deal.

    That said, what's the probablity of getting "the right deal" for BPhil. If someone offers a true pitching hoss, then by all means. But based on the lack of pitching moves this past deadline (and since then) I'm not sure that is likely to happen.

    It's also a little frustrating that the minute someone becomes valuable the calls to trade him pop up. I posted this reciently but can't we just enjoy the guy for a season or two before unloading him? I know that in todays baseball economics that's nieve, but still it would be nice to actually hang onto tallent, especially young tallent.

    That BP can be walk challenged isn't a good reason to trade him, IMO. It's a good reason to bat him lower in the order, but that alone is not a good reason to trade him.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

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