Bengals vs. Alka Seltzer Birds

[macro]

@ KC (W)

They only lost by ten at Chicago and they beat Minnesota. Arrowhead is never an easy place for a visitor to win, regardless of the season.

vs. Arizona (W)

These are not your father's Cardinals. They only lost by a field goal at San Francisco and again at Baltimore, and in-between they beat Seattle, the same Seattle that Cincinnati couldn't beat.

vs. Tennessee (W)

They won at Jacksonville (who then won at Denver) and lost to the mighty Colts by two points. And don't forget that they finished last year with a 6-1 run, including a win over the Super Bowl champs and with the only loss being the season finale to New England.

@ San Fran (W)

They're 2-1 and their loss was at Pittsburgh. No shame in that. This one's at their place.

@ Miami (W)

No, they really shouldn't lose to the Dolphins, but these Bengals have proven that they're good at losing big games when something's on the line, even if the opponent isn't all that good. If they enter this game 8-7 and need a win to squeeze into the playoffs, they'll lose it. That's what this team is made of.

I don't think they'll lose all five of these games, but I think they'll do no better than 3-2. That would put them at their old familiar mark of mediocrity, 8-8.

[pedro]

I actually thought they played a pretty good game. It's damn tough to win on the road in the NFL against quality teams. They almost pulled it off.

I thought Dhani Jones was a good addition and Watson played really well.

[traderumor]

I hate to call out a Buckeye, but the Oline seems to have problems with Stepanovich at center. I think Ghiucac (and 100% Levi Jones) will help the running game.

Another question I had during the game--are Leon Hall and Jonathon Joseph fast enough to play NFL corner? Joseph was torched by Winslow last week, can't recall who torched him on the big play right before half time. Maybe he's not 100%? Hall was two steps behind a guy on the first TD on a simple right curl.

[Roy Tucker]

I thought Rudi Johnson ran like a wimp.

At least a couple times he needed to put forth just a little effort to get over the 1st down marker but would go down like a shot if someone breathed on him or just run out of bounds.

Johnson never really struggles for extra yardage, but yesterday it seemed even more glaring.

[Reds Freak]

Macro, I doubt they will win all those games against the weaker opponents either, but I think they'll win at least one out of their three remaining games with Baltimore and Pittsburgh and I marked all three of those down as losses. I just don't think there are more than four losses in the rest of the schedule no matter how it plays out.

Traderumor, you're right about Stepanovich. It seems like the Bengals desperately need Ghuichuac back. Lapham has pointed out on a couple of different occassions that Stepanovich has made some wrong calls.

[WMR]

Rudi is like the anti-Earl Campbell.

(did anyone else see his interview with Bob Costas on HBO, btw? Really heartbreaking stuff.)

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Time and time again Marvin leaves me scratching my head.

Not that it ended up costing them the game, but why the 2 point conversion? With this D and three timeouts left, you have to figure that if Seattle scores, Carson needs minimal time (especially with the 3 timeouts) to get them into FG range for the win. By going for two (and failing), you take the "FG for win" out of the equation and make it a FG to tie.

Say they get the 2 point conversion. The only point of it then was to force Seattle to make their extra point, because Seattle had to score a TD anyway. How many blocked or muffed extra points have their been in the history of the NFL? What is it? 1% or 2% chance maybe?

Ok, what's more likely to happen?

1. Get the two-point conversion, which I'd have to say is a 30-40% chance and then block the extra point or hope they miss it (1-2% chance). All together, less than 1% chance.

2. Kick the extra point and if Seattle scores a TD (high probability with this D Marvin has assembled), and still have enough time with Carson Palmer (and 3 timeouts) to get Graham into range for a game winner.

I pick option 2 every day. Marvin thinks otherwise.

It's things like this, the several challenge screw-up's, and Marvin's clock management that make me wonder if he's the right man for the job to take this team the the next level. I mean, look at the last 6 games. They have had 5 pretty close losses in which either his decisions have come to bite them in the backside or put them in bad position.

I go back to the Steeler game last year when Marvin wasted a TO by icing Jeff Reed on a 35 yard FG. C'mon, why would anyone do this? For one thing, Pittsburgh's season was over. For another thing, it was a 35 yard FG!!! What is there to "ice"? This over-thinking helped cost them the game. Marvin does it all the time and I think his nervousness in these situations is felt by the team and they carry it out to the field (see Denver choke job game last year).

As a Buckeye fan, it is eerily similar to the constipated look and actions of one Mr. John Cooper. The Buckeyes needed a new man to get them to the next level and thank God, they had the AD to make that call. I don't think Mike Brown has the cajones to dump messy Marvin.

The window is closing pretty fast for this offense and Marvin continues to Bungal away victories.

[TeamSelig]

I think we finish 9-7. Hopefully we beat Pittsburgh in one of the games, but will drop two of Arizona/SanFran/Tenn/StL/KC (Tenn/SanFran). I think that leaves us at 9-7.

Actually though, we get Chris Henry back for most of those games. Maybe 10-6 isn't too far out of the picture.

[Tony Cloninger]

If any money is being allocated in the wrong place it is at Rudi and JS location.

RJ is a runner that needs holes for him to succeed....and this OL is nowhere near the line they had from 1985-1990....which ran better than they passed. He is never a runner who can go outside even when he is healthy nor can he catch passes out of the backfield (the CLE non-withstanding)......... Now why this team does not run better is the same thing i asked in the 80's when they would run better than pass.....despite BE good years.....they would struggle passing if they could not run. This team is the opposite.

Now we go to the try hard and play hard JS......who really is another waste of money. You could have picked up the guy from BAL who went to NE and still picked up a DE who can give you the same production that JS gives.


Firing ML..........when MB would not fire Coslet in 2000 after 2 straight ...what 4-12/5-11 seasons.....and then they go 0 and 3 and score 1 TD in those 3 games.....or something like that....AND COSLET HAD TO RESIGN??? what makes you think MB would fire ML......the man who gives him 8-8 seasons and helped fill up the stadium again and take away the anger people had for him?

The same old......Modell fired PB story always comes up as the reason the Brown's are loyal.......Good God......get over that once and for all......PB DESERVED to be fired......he was in-flexible and had lost that team.......those same bad ways always seemed to cancel out the good things he did with the early Bengals. The Bill Bergey trade........the passing over Bill Walsh out of loyalty to Bill Johnson......the re-hiring of Homer Rice at the end of 1978 just beacuse they won 3 games in a row during a 4-12 season.....delaying FG arrival by 1 year.

AND i do not care that they went to the 1988 SB after the fact....the fact is....Wyche should have been fired after 1987.....that team I always will believe WON IN SPITE OF WYCHE.

I am 40 years old....you want to talk about a coach unable to....along with his staff that included LeBau as DC from 1984-1991 ....that could not make adjustments....or draft a defense.......that was that staff.

In 1983 they had the NO. 1 defense in the NFL.......they lost Jim LeClair and Ken Riley the next year....that was really it....they go down to about 15th.....then next year dead last with the same players except Glenn Cameron and Gary Burley....not exactly Jack Lambert and LC Greenwood there.

THERE is a correlation between DL being a better DC in PITT THAN HERE.....it is called having double the scouts....WHO JUST SCOUT ALL YEAR....and having a REAL GM......AND PLAYER PERSONNEL DIRECTOR......not JIM Limp...whatever......a former HS??? coach.

[Screwball]

Time and time again Marvin leaves me scratching my head.

Not that it ended up costing them the game, but why the 2 point conversion? With this D and three timeouts left, you have to figure that if Seattle scores, Carson needs minimal time (especially with the 3 timeouts) to get them into FG range for the win. By going for two (and failing), you take the "FG for win" out of the equation and make it a FG to tie.

Say they get the 2 point conversion. The only point of it then was to force Seattle to make their extra point, because Seattle had to score a TD anyway. How many blocked or muffed extra points have their been in the history of the NFL? What is it? 1% or 2% chance maybe?

Ok, what's more likely to happen?

1. Get the two-point conversion, which I'd have to say is a 30-40% chance and then block the extra point or hope they miss it (1-2% chance). All together, less than 1% chance.

2. Kick the extra point and if Seattle scores a TD (high probability with this D Marvin has assembled), and still have enough time with Carson Palmer (and 3 timeouts) to get Graham into range for a game winner.

I pick option 2 every day. Marvin thinks otherwise.

It's things like this, the several challenge screw-up's, and Marvin's clock management that make me wonder if he's the right man for the job to take this team the the next level. I mean, look at the last 6 games. They have had 5 pretty close losses in which either his decisions have come to bite them in the backside or put them in bad position.

I go back to the Steeler game last year when Marvin wasted a TO by icing Jeff Reed on a 35 yard FG. C'mon, why would anyone do this? For one thing, Pittsburgh's season was over. For another thing, it was a 35 yard FG!!! What is there to "ice"? This over-thinking helped cost them the game. Marvin does it all the time and I think his nervousness in these situations is felt by the team and they carry it out to the field (see Denver choke job game last year).

As a Buckeye fan, it is eerily similar to the constipated look and actions of one Mr. John Cooper. The Buckeyes needed a new man to get them to the next level and thank God, they had the AD to make that call. I don't think Mike Brown has the cajones to dump messy Marvin.

The window is closing pretty fast for this offense and Marvin continues to Bungal away victories.

I definitely agree that the Bengals should have just kicked the extra point. How often do you see a blocked/botched extra point? Maybe once a year.

Although, most people seem to forget that it might not have even mattered. If the Bengals had just kicked the extra point, and then Seattle proceeded to score a TD, they would've no doubt gone for two, and with Shaun Alexander vs. a worn out defense, my guess is they convert the 2 point attempt, putting them up by 3.

Now I don't want to sound like I'm defending the almost indefensible decision Marvin made to go for two. However, I wanted to point out it probably didn't matter anyway.

[Redsfaithful]

I hate to call out a Buckeye, but the Oline seems to have problems with Stepanovich at center. I think Ghiucac (and 100% Levi Jones) will help the running game.

Another question I had during the game--are Leon Hall and Jonathon Joseph fast enough to play NFL corner? Joseph was torched by Winslow last week, can't recall who torched him on the big play right before half time. Maybe he's not 100%? Hall was two steps behind a guy on the first TD on a simple right curl.

I wasn't a fan of the Hall pick but was encouraged after the Baltimore game. Now I am back to not being sure.

Joseph has had a nagging foot injury for awhile, I think it might still be bothering him. He had really good 40 times coming out of college, for whatever that is worth.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Hall was toast in college. I see no reason he shouldn't remain toasty in the pros.

I think Joseph will be the real deal.

The LB depth on this team is criminal. No excuse, not even the Odell situation. The DL depth is weak and the talent is weak. John Thornton is a scrub. Myers is adequate. Peko looks decent. Justin Smith is a not worth the money he's making. I can live with Geathers, but he better start earning it as well.

Injuries and arrests are just a bunch of excuses. Marvin should take over if he's not making the decisions on the defense, because whomever is doing it is making him look really stupid.

To consistently have one of the bottom 5 defenses in the league (with this offense) is inexcusable.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

One more thing.

On the Hasselbeck catch and fumble, did Marvin incorrectly challenge the wrong part of the play (the fumble) and not whether the catch was made prior to the fumble? I understand the fumble not being reviewable, but the catch should have been reviewed.

If so, that would make two straight weeks that Marvin has screwed up these situations. Last week, Braylan Edwards spot, on the late first down should have been reviewed. I believe Marvin wanted to review the subsequent fumble and they told him it was not reviewable. Funny thing, he used the timeout after the Braylan Edwards first down anyway, but did not have them review the spot, which was obviously a full yard off.

[traderumor]

Part of the game of football is ball control. The double edged sword of this team is that they often give the other team a lot of additional possessions when the offense is rolling, thus potentially exposing any defense. Not an excuse, but perhaps part of the defense's problem is too many possessions. So, you may need a top 5 D talent wise to offset the risk of additional possessions for the opponent and just to finish in the top half of the league. I hope that is not overly simplistic, but there have clearly been games that the offense scores too easily and you know that is gonna wear out the D as the game and season goes on. I'm not sure there is anything that can be done with the current squad, but it may be part of the ups and downs of the D moreso than simple talent and scheme problems.

[pedro]

Part of the game of football is ball control. The double edged sword of this team is that they often give the other team a lot of additional possessions when the offense is rolling, thus potentially exposing any defense. Not an excuse, but perhaps part of the defense's problem is too many possessions. So, you may need a top 5 D talent wise to offset the risk of additional possessions for the opponent and just to finish in the top half of the league. I hope that is not overly simplistic, but there have clearly been games that the offense scores too easily and you know that is gonna wear out the D as the game and season goes on. I'm not sure there is anything that can be done with the current squad, but it may be part of the ups and downs of the D moreso than simple talent and scheme problems.

I agree with the idea that the Bengals need to control the clock more in order to take the heat off the defense. They simply can not afford to continually play the no huddle IMO.