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Thread: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

  1. #16
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Erardi also had this column yesterday.

    Radio announcers influence fans
    Early criticism of Dunn helped him become hot topic
    BY JOHN ERARDI | JERARDI@ENQUIRER.COM

    When it comes to the public's perception of players, Marty and Thom Brennaman might have more influence than anybody else - including the athletes themselves.

    The two Brennamans, along with fellow announcer Jeff Brantley, have not been shy about calling attention to Adam Dunn's shortcomings.

    Greg Gajus, who writes about and researches baseball statistics, said the Brennamans helped turn fans against Dunn, particularly early in the season.

    "(Their) constant carping of his weaknesses is what has made him more of a lightning rod," Gajus says. "A characteristic of all bad teams, and their fans, is that they focus on the shortcomings of their best players, instead of the real weaknesses of the team."

    True, the two Brennamans and Brantley focused on Dunn's weaknesses. But in the second half of the season, they became backers of Dunn, to whom they'd dished out criticism leading up to the trade deadline.

    Marty Brennaman understands why some people might blame him and his cohorts for making Dunn the focus of discontent.

    "But, like I've said before, 'If I'm going to praise you when you play well, then I reserve the right to be critical of you when you don't.' ... If (listeners) were turned off on Adam Dunn by my comments from April to the All-Star Game, then they've got to be turned on to him by what I've said since then."

    The Brennamans say they think Dunn could do something about his standing with Reds fans. Thom says Dunn could warm up to the idea of being a Red, and Marty says if Dunn lost some weight, he'd reach more balls in the outfield and score on more balls hit through the infield.

    Like most big men, Dunn does take awhile to get moving.

    "He is not physically able to cover the ground people want him to cover," Brantley says. "As a result, he's diving for balls he probably shouldn't be diving for (because it puts his health, and thus, his real value on offense at risk), but he's trying to prove to people, 'I'm trying as hard as I can.' "
    /r/reds

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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  4. #18
    Waiting for a tour/album KittyDuran's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Excerpts from an interview with statistical analyst Justin Inaz on Adam Dunn.

    "Who was the greatest baseball hero in Cincinnati? For a lot of fans, at least up to my generation, it was Pete Rose: a scrappy, hustling, guy who didn't strike out much, didn't have a whole lot of power, and got lots of base hits. He wasn't the best player in baseball, and often wasn't the best player on the Reds team, but he was the hero.

    "Adam Dunn is in many ways the complete opposite. He's huge, doesn't look like he's hustling much on the field (though he's durable as heck, which he gets no credit for...played through the 2005 season with a broken hand!), strikes out a ton, has tons of power, and often gets almost as many extra base hits as he does singles. I think he's good at exactly those things that Cincinnati fans somehow have decided aren't important. Even if they do help win ballgames.

    "As an aside, Philadelphia has two players that are a lot like Dunn: Pat Burrell and Ryan Howard. And there fans love Howard and hate Burrell. Go figure."

    "The biggest need for the Reds is still better run prevention, be it via improved fielding or improved pitching. Without knowing the trade market and free agent market, it's hard to know what exactly is feasible. But getting another plus defender in the outfield, either by trading Griffey or moving Dunn to 1B, would be a step in the right direction in terms of the fielding problem."
    Another reason that not mentioned here is that Rose is also from Cincinnati - a hometown guy. Not the best reason, but an important reason for many fans in the area.
    Last edited by KittyDuran; 10-01-2007 at 12:58 PM.
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  5. #19
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyDuran View Post
    Maybe I missed it, but one of the big reasons that Rose is the ultimate sports icon in Cincinnati, is that he is a hometown guy.
    So was Larkin and he was at times treated like he was from Cleveland.

  6. #20
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Shoot, we covered this years ago. Leave it to Cincinnati press to actually print it 5 years later.

    In football season.
    Next we'll be hearing about those crazy new "radar ranges" that can cook food in under a minute.
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  7. #21
    Waiting for a tour/album KittyDuran's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    So was Larkin and he was at times treated like he was from Cleveland.
    True, and we can list other "home-grown" Cincinnati ballplayers and they pale against Pete...but I included the home-grown angle with the other so-called "qualities" of Rose. Larkin is hometown but I wouldn't classify him as having those qualities that Inaz mentioned in his article:

    a scrappy, hustling, guy who didn't strike out much, didn't have a whole lot of power, and got lots of base hits. He wasn't the best player in baseball, and often wasn't the best player on the Reds team, but he was the hero.
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  8. #22
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyDuran View Post
    True, and we can list other "home-grown" Cincinnati ballplayers and they pale against Pete...but I included the home-grown angle with the other so-called "qualities" of Rose. Larkin is hometown but I wouldn't classify him as having those qualities that Inaz mentioned in his article:
    If you want to compile a list of Home Town HOF players treated like crap put Barry on top.

    a scrappy, hustling, guy who didn't strike out much, didn't have a whole lot of power, and got lots of base hits.
    Sounds a lot like the Barry Larkin I remember.

    Doubles are a sign of power, Pete had those coming out of his ears.

  9. #23
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    I doubt John Erardi would even want the gig, but it'd be oh-so-nice if he were the Reds' beat writer for the Enquirer.
    My sentiments exactly.

    When I saw this article on the front page of the Enquirer sports section and John Erardi was the author, I took a cup of coffee over the couch to read this and savor and enjoy.

    Erardi always does excellent and quality work. I really can't say the same about Scoop Fay. To his credit, Fay was better in 2007, but that brings him up to "barely competent".

    Pay attention to the open sky

  10. #24
    Waiting for a tour/album KittyDuran's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    If you want to compile a list of Home Town HOF players treated like crap put Barry on top.


    Sounds a lot like the Barry Larkin I remember.

    Doubles are a sign of power, Pete had those coming out of his ears.
    HUH??? Why didn't you include the other part of the quote?

    He wasn't the best player in baseball, and often wasn't the best player on the Reds team, but he was the hero.
    Barry was one of the supreme players at his position - there was no contest with Rose, even tho' Pete played multiple positions adequately, he was no gold glover - Barry gets it hands-down. And for many years Barry was the best player on the Reds.

    Oh well, to each his own, but "scappy, hustling" means to me means having to "scape out" playing baseball because you don't have the natural gifts (see Nunnley, Stynes, Hopper, Keppinger, etc.). What many fans see, unfortunately, is themselves in these players, they can relate because the majority would never be good enough to play MLB because they don't have any natural talent.
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  11. #25
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyDuran View Post
    Oh well, to each his own, but "scappy, hustling" means to me means having to "scape out" playing baseball because you don't have the natural gifts (see Nunnley, Stynes, Hopper, Keppinger, etc.). What many fans see, unfortunately, is themselves in these players, they can relate because the majority would never be good enough to play MLB because they don't have any natural talent.
    I'm not anti scrappy by any means, but I also never thought of Pete Rose as being in the scrappy pile, he was a superstar on a superstar team. The other guys are every men for their play, Pete was an everyman because he was able to get along with every man, he was a witty, verbose jock in his hometown, he was a story everyday he stepped out of his house in Cincinnati. That IMO is what made him huge in town, that and he could play the game, anywhere on the field.

  12. #26
    Waiting for a tour/album KittyDuran's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    I'm not anti scrappy by any means, but I also never thought of Pete Rose as being in the scrappy pile, he was a superstar on a superstar team. The other guys are every men for their play, Pete was an everyman because he was able to get along with every man, he was a witty, verbose jock in his hometown, he was a story everyday he stepped out of his house in Cincinnati. That IMO is what made him huge in town, that and he could play the game, anywhere on the field.
    So, Barry was crapped on here in Cincinnati because of__________? (if him and Pete were so much alike as you say - there much be something else...maybe non-baseball related - if that is what you're hinting at???).
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  13. #27
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyDuran View Post
    So, Barry was crapped on here in Cincinnati because of__________? (if him and Pete were so much alike as you say - there much be something else...maybe non-baseball related - if that is what you're hinting at???).
    Mainly because he was outspoken in an era that was just starting to deal with outspoken ballplayers, not just speaking about their salary that is. He was more complaining about the running of the club where as Pete was known to complain about his salary. However there is the black and white thing, as well as East Cincinnati vs West Cincinnati and the fact that Barry went to Michigan probably irks a few fans. My take is that many felt Pete was the ultimate symbol of the city and that Barry despite being from the city never was, I don't see any streets named after him.

    We all know that not everyone can be Pete Rose, we're just starting to see that not everyone can be Barry Larkin too.

  14. #28
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Mainly because he was outspoken in an era that was just starting to deal with outspoken ballplayers, not just speaking about their salary that is. He was more complaining about the running of the club where as Pete was known to complain about his salary. However there is the black and white thing, as well as East Cincinnati vs West Cincinnati and the fact that Barry went to Michigan probably irks a few fans. My take is that many felt Pete was the ultimate symbol of the city and that Barry despite being from the city never was, I don't see any streets named after him.

    I seem to recall him being critical of Marge back in the early 90s when she made her statements about blacks. I wasn't living here then but I do recall reading something about the natives being very critical of him and it eventually made him move down to FLA.
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  15. #29
    Waiting for a tour/album KittyDuran's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I seem to recall him being critical of Marge back in the early 90s when she made her statements about blacks. I wasn't living here then but I do recall reading something about the natives being very critical of him and it eventually made him move down to FLA.
    I would like to think that him and other ballplayers move to FL because of their money... [but it's a good story]
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  16. #30
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    Re: Dunn is Reds' lightning rod

    Doesn't this debate start and end with what the roster looks like next year.....or better put, who are the 5 outfielders next year?

    Does Jay Bruce start the season with the team? Does JR play every day?

    Does Ryan Freel have a place on this team anymore? Does Gonzalez have a place? Is Keppinger the starting SS?

    It seems to me that you could have 5 outfielders named Bruce, Griffey, Hopper, Hamilton and Dunn. That would mean that only Hopper was RH.

    I guess my point is, being critical of Dunn or supporting him may not be the issue.....the issue may be the need to improve the balance of the roster.
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