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Thread: Notes: Bruce wants more than award

  1. #16
    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Notes: Bruce wants more than award

    hearing him before the game sunday he sounds so young, I agree with Doug unless there's a opening he should be in AAA all 2008.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Notes: Bruce wants more than award

    It's the mark of good organizations that they make opportunities for their best players. If Bruce is ready to hit in the major leagues next year, that's where he should be. This is the most important reason to trade Griffey and perhaps to not exercise Dunn's option--that is, having guys in place for long contracts and for big bucks reduces organizational flexibility. You start looking at why we can't do certain things instead of why we can do whatever makes the most sense and will help the organization win. All I hope is that the three guys in the outfield on opening day are the three best major league players. If Bruce is one of those, he should be there, IMHO.

  4. #18
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Reds 2008 OF

    Reds 2008 OF should be Dunn in LF, Hamilton in CF & Bruce in RF.

    Griffey should be dealt this winter.
    Get a list of teams he will accept a trade to.
    Shop him and take the best offer.
    Then put Bruce in RF.

    The Reds haven't had a winning record in years.
    Why do they insist on keeping Griffey?
    So he can hit #600 as a Red?
    Who really gives a you know what about this milestone?

    If Castellini/Krivsky keep Bruce in AAA next year just to keep Griffey it will be a shame.
    .

  5. #19
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds 2008 OF

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    Reds 2008 OF should be Dunn in LF, Hamilton in CF & Bruce in RF.

    Griffey should be dealt this winter.
    Get a list of teams he will accept a trade to.
    Shop him and take the best offer.
    Then put Bruce in RF.

    The Reds haven't had a winning record in years.
    Why do they insist on keeping Griffey?
    So he can hit #600 as a Red?
    Who really gives a you know what about this milestone?

    If Castellini/Krivsky keep Bruce in AAA next year just to keep Griffey it will be a shame.
    Not exactly. First off, Bruce should be in CF over Hamilton if they are sharing the outfield.

    Secondly, if the Reds can't get any type of value for Griffey, then it makes no sense to trade a productive player for next to nothing, especially if you can't get someone to take on the contract.

  6. #20
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Reds 2008 OF

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Not exactly. First off, Bruce should be in CF over Hamilton if they are sharing the outfield.

    Secondly, if the Reds can't get any type of value for Griffey, then it makes no sense to trade a productive player for next to nothing, especially if you can't get someone to take on the contract.
    Why would you think the Reds can't get value for Junior?
    He played 144 games last year, hit 30 homers & OPSed .869.
    And he only has one more year ( with an option ) on his contract.
    PLENTY of teams would trade value for him.
    .

  7. #21
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Notes: Bruce wants more than award

    He is aging, coming off an injury, on the books for 12.5 million dollars, has constant injury problems and I believe a 4.5 million dollar buyout on his option year if it is not picked up. Toss in the fact he controls where he goes, and the number of teams that could actually make a trade for him is probably no more than 6.... and are those teams willing to trade for him? Then you have to ask, are they willing to make a deal worth it to the Reds?

  8. #22
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Notes: Bruce wants more than award

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    He is aging, coming off an injury, on the books for 12.5 million dollars, has constant injury problems and I believe a 4.5 million dollar buyout on his option year if it is not picked up. Toss in the fact he controls where he goes, and the number of teams that could actually make a trade for him is probably no more than 6.... and are those teams willing to trade for him? Then you have to ask, are they willing to make a deal worth it to the Reds?
    His 'season ending' injury was only season ending because it occurred so late in the year.
    His 2006 & 2007 seasons have been quite productive.

    12.5M is chickenfeed in today's baseball.
    Even if he gets hurt the team trading for him will only pay 17M ( 12.5M plus the buyout ).
    This is a risk teams like the Yanks & Red Sox are more than willing to take for a guy who hit 30 homers last year.
    If A-Rod opts out of his contract the Yanks would LOVE to get Junior to help the team and quite the media critics.

    Maybe we just disagree on Junior's value but I think he can be moved and we can get real value for him.
    .

  9. #23
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    Re: Notes: Bruce wants more than award

    Plus $6.5 million of next years salary is deferred and paid in installments through 2024. Makes the contract a little easier to swallow, IMO.
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    ADOPT THIS SIGNATURE IN SOLIDARITY!!!

  10. #24
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Notes: Bruce wants more than award

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    His 'season ending' injury was only season ending because it occurred so late in the year.
    His 2006 & 2007 seasons have been quite productive.

    12.5M is chickenfeed in today's baseball.
    Even if he gets hurt the team trading for him will only pay 17M ( 12.5M plus the buyout ).
    This is a risk teams like the Yanks & Red Sox are more than willing to take for a guy who hit 30 homers last year.
    If A-Rod opts out of his contract the Yanks would LOVE to get Junior to help the team and quite the media critics.

    Maybe we just disagree on Junior's value but I think he can be moved and we can get real value for him.
    ONLY 17 Million dollars for 1 season is chickenfeed? Wow.

    I love Griffey and I guarentee you there is no bigger Ken Griffey Jr fan on this message board than me. The Yankees could be a team Griffey would have interest from, but would he go there? He hated how they treated his father when he played there, and at least a while ago he stated he wouldn't go there.

  11. #25
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    Re: Reds 2008 OF

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    Why do they insist on keeping Griffey?
    So he can hit #600 as a Red?
    Who really gives a you know what about this milestone?
    Absolutely Bob Cast. cares about this!!!! I agree with you Will M but I see him as a Red to begin 2008 if for no other reason than #600.

  12. #26
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Notes: Bruce wants more than award

    At this stage in his career, he has to be in a place where he gets regular at bats. Lots of them.

    If the Reds don't clear the logjam in the outfield this offseason, it will be better for Bruce to be in AAA playing everyday.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  13. #27
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    Re: Notes: Bruce wants more than award

    It will not be better for the organization in the long run if the best outfielders do not play.

  14. #28
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Notes: Bruce wants more than award

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    It will not be better for the organization in the long run if the best outfielders do not play.

    It's not that simple. It's asset management.

    You have to get the most for the surplus assets you have before you move him up. We can't afford to waste any assets at this point.

    If the Reds deem him ready, clear the way. Otherwise, let him continue to develop. You can't bring him up just for the sake of bringing him up. He has to get at bats, regular at bats.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  15. #29
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Reds 2008 OF

    Quote Originally Posted by dthomas24 View Post
    Absolutely Bob Cast. cares about this!!!! I agree with you Will M but I see him as a Red to begin 2008 if for no other reason than #600.
    :thumbdown

    You may be right.

    However the Reds have so few trading chips other than Griffey or Dunn that I don't see major improvements coming without a trade.
    Trading Votto, Bruce or Hamilton makes no sense. These guys are good and cheap, very important for a small market team.
    Keeping both Dunn and Griffey around to start 2008 is a mistake IMO. We have a logjam and we have needs ( pitching ).
    Trading Griffey for the best return and starting Bruce all season is the best plan IMO.
    .

  16. #30
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    Re: Notes: Bruce wants more than award

    RFS, you're just in danger of hiding costs, which are no less real just because you can't see them or they don't surface immediately. Over a longer term, there are certainly costs to the organization of sending the message that things other than productivity count. One cost is already evident; the Reds have gotten used to the idea of being pretty much second rate. What else can account for the choices of manager in recent years? Does a team that really believes it has a chance to win the world series hire inexperienced managers with no record of major league success?


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