Interesting idea- Crisp in CF?

[Benihana]

Many on this board clamor for the Reds to acquire a defensive CF. Coco Crisp is going to soon be on the move because the Sox need to open up room for Jacoby Ellsbury (as noted by mlbtraderumors.com)

According to the website, the Sox would be looking for 3B help in the event that they could not re-sign Mike Lowell. Kevin Youkilis is a natural 3B that could take Lowell's place, which would open up a spot at 1B. That got me to thinking...

What if the Reds pick up Hatteberg's option, then send him, plus another player, to the Red Sox in exchange for Coco Crisp, who is signed for the next two seasons at $5.25 MM per, with a club option (which the Reds love so much) for 2010, which would give the Reds flexibility pending the outcome of the Drew Stubbs project. The Hat returns to where he began his career, and gets to finish his career playing for a contender. Theo gets a second corner infielder who was the feature of a Moneyball chapter. Sounds like a match made in heaven.

I would love this deal for many reasons.

First, Hatteberg is completely superflous at this point with the emergence of both Votto and Cantu. However, his option is too cheap not to pick up relative to his production, so it leaves the Reds with a dilemma. This resolves that dilemma.

Second, the Reds acquiring the reasonably priced Crisp would immediately improve the OF defense, and allow them to play the Hambone in LF and Bruce in RF.

Third and most obviously, this would give the Reds the flexibility to move BOTH Jr. and Dunn, the latter if a great opportunity arises. If not, Dunn stays in LF and Bruce stays in Louisville until a good deal does arise.

Don't get me wrong, this is not intended to be yet another trade Dunn thread. I just wanted to provide a suggestion that works for both teams if a true defensive CF is what the Reds are seeking.

Your thoughts?

[pedro]

I don't think Boston would be interested in Hatteberg.

[redsmetz]

Is Bruce's defense that suspect? I've assumed from listening to others that Hamilton could slide over to right and Bruce could take CF. I just don't see any way to replace Dunn's production. Junior I think we can move and fill the hole. I don't think it's that easy viz Dunn.

I do like the approach about signing Hatteberg and then moving him (and that could mean during next season too). I just don't think you can replace the "elephant in the living room" - not trading Dunn.

[Benihana]

I don't think Boston would be interested in Hatteberg.

That begs the question- who is the other player?

I say you start with a Juan Francisco, and pay up to a David Weathers if it gets the deal done.

Weathers is signed cheaply, but how long can he maintain this production? And more importantly, how long can you keep Burton out of the closer's role?

[Benihana]

Is Bruce's defense that suspect? I've assumed from listening to others that Hamilton could slide over to right and Bruce could take CF. I just don't see any way to replace Dunn's production. Junior I think we can move and fill the hole. I don't think it's that easy viz Dunn.

I do like the approach about signing Hatteberg and then moving him (and that could mean during next season too). I just don't think you can replace the "elephant in the living room" - not trading Dunn.

I actually agree, and that's why I said I didn't want to make this into a Dunn thread. I just wanted to throw this idea out there for those that clamor for a true defensive CF

[KronoRed]

The Red Sox being who they are can afford to let Crisp be overpaid, I'm thinking they will want a power hitting 1B if they let Lowell go.

[Highlifeman21]

Many on this board clamor for the Reds to acquire a defensive CF. Coco Crisp is going to soon be on the move because the Sox need to open up room for Jacoby Ellsbury (as noted by mlbtraderumors.com)

According to the website, the Sox would be looking for 3B help in the event that they could not re-sign Mike Lowell. Kevin Youkilis is a natural 3B, that could take Lowell's place, which would open up a spot at 1B. That got me to thinking...

What if the Reds pick up Hatteberg's option, then send him, plus another player, to the Red Sox in exchange for Coco Crisp, who is signed for the next two seasons at $5.25 MM per, with a club option (which the Reds love so much) for 2010. The Hat returns to where he began his career, and gets to finish his career playing for a contender. Theo gets a second corner infielder who was the feature of a Moneyball chapter. Sounds like a match made in heaven.

I would love this deal for many reasons.

First, Hatteberg is completely superflous at this point with the emergence of both Votto and Cantu. However, his option is too cheap not to pick up relative to his production, so it leaves the Reds with a dilemma. This resolves that dilemma.

Second, the Reds acquiring the reasonably priced Crisp would immediately improve the OF defense, and allow them to play the Hambone in LF and Bruce in RF.

Third and most obviously, this would give the Reds the flexibility to move BOTH Jr. and Dunn, the latter if a great opportunity arises. If not, Dunn stays in LF and Bruce stays in Louisville until a good deal does arise.

Don't get me wrong, this is not intended to be yet another trade Dunn thread. I just wanted to provide a suggestion that works for both teams if a true defensive CF is what the Reds are seeking.

Your thoughts?

Kevin Youkilis is a natural 3B? Seems to be more of a natural 1B, IMO.

Hatteberg is not a good fit for Boston by any stretch of the imagination. He's worse than Hinske, who is the current backup to Youkilis. If Boston's really in a pinch, they can always put Ortiz at 1B.

As for the equation of Crisp + Bruce > Griffey + Dunn, I just don't buy it on many levels. Crisp's D will not make up for the big dropoff offensively compared to Griffey or Dunn, and Bruce will be a true rookie in 2008, and we can't expect him to put up numbers on par with Griffey or Dunn immediately.

Adding Crisp b/c of his D would net a similar result of adding Alex Gonzalez b/c of his D. It's just not a good bet.

[bucksfan2]

I like the idea of Crisp in a reds Uni but unfortuantly without moving both Griffey this move doesn't work for me. The outfield is actually a position that the reds are set upon for next season and I dont see a way the reds can acquire Crisp and make this team better.

[Johnny Footstool]

The thing about Crisp is that he is still young and he has shown that he has a good set of offensive tools.

I'd love for the Reds to acquire Crisp while his stock is relatively low. Unfortunately, I don't know if they have the right pieces to complete the deal. I doubt the Sox would simply give him away, but he could probably be acquired at a discount at this point.

IMO, the best solution would be to acquire Crisp and move Dunn to first.

[Benihana]

Kevin Youkilis is a natural 3B? Seems to be more of a natural 1B, IMO.

Hatteberg is not a good fit for Boston by any stretch of the imagination. He's worse than Hinske, who is the current backup to Youkilis. If Boston's really in a pinch, they can always put Ortiz at 1B.

As for the equation of Crisp + Bruce > Griffey + Dunn, I just don't buy it on many levels. Crisp's D will not make up for the big dropoff offensively compared to Griffey or Dunn, and Bruce will be a true rookie in 2008, and we can't expect him to put up numbers on par with Griffey or Dunn immediately.

Adding Crisp b/c of his D would net a similar result of adding Alex Gonzalez b/c of his D. It's just not a good bet.

Nope, nope, nope. Incorrect on all accounts.

Youkilis has been a 3B all his life, including for the Red Sox before this season.

Again, I'm not suggesting the Reds jettison Dunn to make room for Crisp. I just said that there are a lot of people around here clamoring for a defensive CF (M2 comes to mind), and I think this would take care of that problem, without giving up any key parts of the team.

I would argue that Hinske is NOT better than Hatteberg, by any stretch. Please explain to me your logic, I would LOVE to hear it! Also, Big Papi playing 1B on a regular basis considered a viable option to anyone in the Boston front office. Theo Epstein is a Moneyball guy, and I think he wouldn't mind having the Hat on the team. Again, getting the deal done would depend on who the other player is.

Finally, you are not acquiring Crisp simply for his defense. You are acquiring a defensive CF that has also put up decent peripheral numbers in his day, and is relatively young and cheap.

[Highlifeman21]

Nope, nope, nope. Incorrect on all accounts.

Youkilis has been a 3B all his life, including for the Red Sox before this season.

Again, I'm not suggesting the Reds jettison Dunn to make room for Crisp. I just said that there are a lot of people around here clamoring for a defensive CF (M2 comes to mind), and I think this would take care of that problem, without giving up any key parts of the team.

I would argue that Hinske is NOT better than Hatteberg, by any stretch. Please explain to me your logic, I would LOVE to hear it! Also, Big Papi playing 1B on a regular basis considered a viable option to anyone in the Boston front office. Theo Epstein is a Moneyball guy, and I think he wouldn't mind having the Hat on the team. Again, getting the deal done would depend on who the other player is.

Kevin Youkilis Games by Position
Year		1B	3B
2004		0	65
2005		9	24
2006		127	16
2007		135	13

2006 and 2007, Youkilis was their 1B, and prior to that, he wasn't good enough at the time to play ahead of the likes of Kevin Millar or Bill Mueller.

You're also basing the premise of obtaining Crisp on trading away our useless, spare parts. The Red Sox simply do not have a use for Hatteberg, and thus would not trade Crisp for Hatteberg. Obtaining Crisp would cost more than we could feasibly afford. As for Hinske vs. Hatteberg...

Hatteberg vs. Hinske

Career
Player		Age	G	AB	BB	SO	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS	#P/PA	BB/PA	BB/SO	RF	ZR
Hatteberg	37	1280	4174	555	496	.274	.363	.413	.776	4.01	.116	1.12	9.49	.862
Hinske		30	770	2525	299	605	.255	.336	.434	.770	3.94	.104	.49	9.66	.883

Hinske is 7 years younger, plays a better defensive 1B, and offensively they are the same. Hatteberg is an OBP driven OPS guy, Hinske is a SLG driven OPS guy. Youth gives the nod to Hinske. At 37, Hatteberg isn't likely to keep his OPS North of .800, while at 30, Hinske is more likely to improve or maintain, rather than drastically decline.

[reds44]

Crisp (27)-
Career: .280/.329/.409
Season: .268/.300/.382

Yes, he does play great defense.

Now I am not a Norris Hopper fan, but I'm not so sure how much of an upgrade Crisp would be. He certainly wouldn't be the leadoff hitter the Reds need. Not to mention you would have to give something up to get him..

[Highlifeman21]

Crisp (27)-
Career: .280/.329/.409
Season: .268/.300/.382

Yes, he does play great defense.

Now I am not a Norris Hopper fan, but I'm not so sure how much of an upgrade Crisp would be. He certainly wouldn't be the leadoff hitter the Reds need. Not to mention you would have to give something up to get him..

Defensively, I'd take Crisp over Hopper everyday of the week, and twice on Sundays.

Offensively, they both should be 4th OF.

Crisp's D warrants him to play everyday, Hopper, not so much. I'm just not so convinced the addition of Crisp's D would compensate for his lack of stick. I'd rather have Dunn/Hamilton/Griffey/Bruce offensively with the defense they bring to the table vs. having Crisp play everyday and stomaching his offense.

[kheidg-]

No to Coco Crisp. I'd rather have a combo of Freel/Hopper manning CF if it came down to getting Crisp.

[TeamBoone]

IMHO, the Reds already have a pretty good center fielder and is not a problem area that needs to be fixed.