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Thread: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

  1. #1
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    There's been a lot of speculation nationally about the possibility of former St. Louis GM Walt Jocketty ending up with the Reds, given the that Reds CEO Bob Castellini was once a limited partner in St. Louis and he's known to admire the work Jocketty did with the Cardinals.

    But it's not going to happen.

    "Wayne Krivsky is our GM. Period," Castellini said Monday through a spokesman.

    Krivsky has one year remaining on his contract. The Reds are 152-172 in his two years as GM.

    Jocketty was dismissed after the season by the Cardinals.

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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    Just what any Reds fan should expect. Things never seem to really change around here.

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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    Quote Originally Posted by kbrake View Post
    Just what any Reds fan should expect. Things never seem to really change around here.
    Krivsky has only been the GM for just over a year and a half.

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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    His drafts have been nothing special. 2 year deals for Castro, Stanton, and Ross were horrible in 07 and should only be more painful to watch in 08. I give him credit for Arroyo and Phillips but at some point those two positives start to slip away to terrible moves he has made which far out number the few really good ones.

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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    Quote Originally Posted by kbrake View Post
    His drafts have been nothing special. 2 year deals for Castro, Stanton, and Ross were horrible in 07 and should only be more painful to watch in 08. I give him credit for Arroyo and Phillips but at some point those two positives start to slip away to terrible moves he has made which far out number the few really good ones.
    Think I've seen other posts on here that more objectively weigh good versus bad moves in Krivsky's short tenure.

    It's too easy to only list two in his favor and say the rest were crap.

    Josh Hamilton and Jared Burton say hello, by the way.
    I have a love-hate relationship with Albert Pujols. Mostly hate.

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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    Not that I am a big Krivsky fan but Jocketty isnt that great either. I think it would be a lateral move.

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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    Quote Originally Posted by kbrake View Post
    His drafts have been nothing special. 2 year deals for Castro, Stanton, and Ross were horrible in 07 and should only be more painful to watch in 08. I give him credit for Arroyo and Phillips but at some point those two positives start to slip away to terrible moves he has made which far out number the few really good ones.
    To avoid getting banned, I'll restrain myself from calling you names or calling you stupid.........but your post sent me over the edge.

    Krivsky has had 2 actual seasons and one offseason to improve this team. You pointed out a few bad moves........how about offsetting that with all the good moves and good things happening with the Reds.

    There are players he didn't draft that have still progressed and improved in the minor leagues that in the past might have been traded or not developed as well as the Votto's, Bruce's, Bailey's and Cueto's seem to be developing. Krivsky has managed to not give in to the fans and rush these players. Honestly, the Reds have not had a good track record of developing players - but it appears that Votto and Bruce are the real deal. You don't just give credit to those who drafted these players......but you also credit the minor league system/coaches who helped them develop and the current management for overseeing their development, not rushing them or trading them away. Krivsky realizes, unlike former GM's, that we are small market and have to balance our payroll with young developed talent. The Reds are on the verge of having their First Basement and one of their outfielders come from our minors. I can't remember the last time that happened. Can you?

    They are also on the verge of possibly having a couple of starting pitchers develop from our minors in Bailey and Cueto.

    Moving on to moves:
    Our #2 starter, Arroyo, we got for a song by trading Willy Mo Pena. Didn't Boston demote him last season?

    At the time, Ross was a huge improveoment over Larue offensively. He struggled with his batting average this year but was not a defensive liability or lack of power.

    WK got Phillips, our current and future second basement and probably eventual all-star, for a song. I have friends who are Cleveland Indian fans and they cry over that move.

    Has stuck with Edwin Encarnacion and even demoted him earlier this season for him to work on his defense. Obviously, something or some coach in the minors helped EE tremendously because he came back a much improved defensive player and in the second half, his offense took off.

    Signed Alex Gonzalez for SS. He was solid.

    Signed Jeff Keppinger. The guy was a lifesaver this season. Could be a starter, but definitely an outstanding utility player who can play all infield positions.

    Norris Hopper? Good move. Coats and Ellison? Stopgaps but they had good triple A pedigree's.

    I think everyone was stunned but happy when we heard in the offseason that WK had extended Harang and Arroyo. All we heard was about Bronson wanting to go back to Boston and then he gets extended. Harang is the ace of the staff, now locked up for a few years more.

    Stole Josh Hamilton in a rule 5 move.

    Stole Jared Burton in a rule 5 move.

    Got minor league pitcher, Maloney for a song.

    Dumped Felipe Lopez and Austin Kearns on Washington just as they approached bigger contracts and we all saw their pitiful season in Washington. WK had the foresight to know they weren't worth it.

    So he's made a few bad moves. I'm sure some of these good moves were considered risks at the time and panned out in a very good way. The good moves FAR OUTWEIGH the bad moves.

    All this in a 2 full seasons and one offseason.

    Our infield and outfield are set next season. And our backups are set. The pitching staff needs improvement. What's new. Every major league pitching staff except the top 6 wealthiest teams that can buy anyone they want, are looking for quality pitching. More than likely, it will have to be developed through our minors, but hopefully we can either secure a free agent or make another steal of a trade for quality pitching.

    I'm just shocked when people bash Krivsky. Two losing seasons. So what? Did you expect him to get hired and win immediately with the pig slop he was handed?

    I'm done venting. Comments like that send me over the edge.
    Who's on first?

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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    Quote Originally Posted by I(heart)Freel View Post
    Think I've seen other posts on here that more objectively weigh good versus bad moves in Krivsky's short tenure.

    It's too easy to only list two in his favor and say the rest were crap.

    Josh Hamilton and Jared Burton say hello, by the way.
    Besides Arroyo and Phillips, and as, I(heart) Freel points out Hamilton, Burton, lest we forget Keppinger? Fact is Krivsky has done fairly well in 1 1/2 years. If he was ---as we are told--- the architect of the Twins Minor League system, keep him here. There hasn't been much of anybody more effective at developing from within than the Twins. Need we name some names they've brought about? John Allen wanted Krivsky here 2 years earlier, but the previous owners over-ruled in favor of Ohioan O'Brien. I'm thinking this team might be steps further if Allen had his way, like,----IN THE PLAYOFFS!!!

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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    ChatterRed, to save space I didn't copy your comments, but I agree with a lot of them. I think that Krivsky has shown tremendous foresight in many of his moves. I think that that can sometimes escape him on his bad moves though. I would rather have Krivsky than Jockety, because I believe that he did what he felt was the right move in the trades so far. The trade with the Nationals didn't look good at the outset, but has turned out evently terrible for both teams. Hopefully Bray isn't hurt next year, and can be 100 percent, so we can get a full picture of his abilities.
    If you can't build a winning team with that core a fire-sale isn't the solution. Selling the franchise, moving them to Nashville and converting GABP into a used car lot is.
    -LTlabner

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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    Quote Originally Posted by ChatterRed View Post
    To avoid getting banned, I'll restrain myself from calling you names or calling you stupid.........but your post sent me over the edge.

    Krivsky has had 2 actual seasons and one offseason to improve this team. You pointed out a few bad moves........how about offsetting that with all the good moves and good things happening with the Reds.

    There are players he didn't draft that have still progressed and improved in the minor leagues that in the past might have been traded or not developed as well as the Votto's, Bruce's, Bailey's and Cueto's seem to be developing. Krivsky has managed to not give in to the fans and rush these players. Honestly, the Reds have not had a good track record of developing players - but it appears that Votto and Bruce are the real deal. You don't just give credit to those who drafted these players......but you also credit the minor league system/coaches who helped them develop and the current management for overseeing their development, not rushing them or trading them away. Krivsky realizes, unlike former GM's, that we are small market and have to balance our payroll with young developed talent. The Reds are on the verge of having their First Basement and one of their outfielders come from our minors. I can't remember the last time that happened. Can you?

    They are also on the verge of possibly having a couple of starting pitchers develop from our minors in Bailey and Cueto.

    Moving on to moves:
    Our #2 starter, Arroyo, we got for a song by trading Willy Mo Pena. Didn't Boston demote him last season?

    At the time, Ross was a huge improveoment over Larue offensively. He struggled with his batting average this year but was not a defensive liability or lack of power.

    WK got Phillips, our current and future second basement and probably eventual all-star, for a song. I have friends who are Cleveland Indian fans and they cry over that move.

    Has stuck with Edwin Encarnacion and even demoted him earlier this season for him to work on his defense. Obviously, something or some coach in the minors helped EE tremendously because he came back a much improved defensive player and in the second half, his offense took off.

    Signed Alex Gonzalez for SS. He was solid.

    Signed Jeff Keppinger. The guy was a lifesaver this season. Could be a starter, but definitely an outstanding utility player who can play all infield positions.

    Norris Hopper? Good move. Coats and Ellison? Stopgaps but they had good triple A pedigree's.

    I think everyone was stunned but happy when we heard in the offseason that WK had extended Harang and Arroyo. All we heard was about Bronson wanting to go back to Boston and then he gets extended. Harang is the ace of the staff, now locked up for a few years more.

    Stole Josh Hamilton in a rule 5 move.

    Stole Jared Burton in a rule 5 move.

    Got minor league pitcher, Maloney for a song.

    Dumped Felipe Lopez and Austin Kearns on Washington just as they approached bigger contracts and we all saw their pitiful season in Washington. WK had the foresight to know they weren't worth it.

    So he's made a few bad moves. I'm sure some of these good moves were considered risks at the time and panned out in a very good way. The good moves FAR OUTWEIGH the bad moves.

    All this in a 2 full seasons and one offseason.

    Our infield and outfield are set next season. And our backups are set. The pitching staff needs improvement. What's new. Every major league pitching staff except the top 6 wealthiest teams that can buy anyone they want, are looking for quality pitching. More than likely, it will have to be developed through our minors, but hopefully we can either secure a free agent or make another steal of a trade for quality pitching.

    I'm just shocked when people bash Krivsky. Two losing seasons. So what? Did you expect him to get hired and win immediately with the pig slop he was handed?

    I'm done venting. Comments like that send me over the edge.
    Sorry your post wasn't up when I posted. While I agree with about everything you say, I must tell you; You need to stop holding back. Let people know how you really feel, you will sense a wondrous release that will relieve anxiety and increase your feelings of well- being. Otherwise, so well put the Reds should hire you to evaluate their moves in the off-season. Let's see what Krivsky can pull from obscurity,-----again, while others will be ringing their hands and gnashing their teeth because we didn't sign Morneau, Mauer, Peavy, Webb, Santana, Paplebon, etc, etc. And yes, Krivsky apparently realized Kearns and Lopez were counterfeit. Kearns whines and pouts like a little girl, and Lopez--well, nevermind.

  12. #11
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    Krisky needs to be judged after 3-5 years not 1.5

    Getting rid of a guy who has gotten us Arroyo, Phillips, Hamilton, etc would be stupid.

    I am a 'kool aid drinker' when it comes to Krisky.

    I chalk up the deals with Castro, Stanton,etc as learning on the job. He has NOT done anything truely awful like trading away Bruce, Cueto,etc nor saddled us with bad fat long term deals.
    "The Trade" cost us Lopez and Kearns who aren't that good anyway.
    .

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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    Wow how people twist the truth "WK had the foresight to know (Kearns and Lopez) weren't worth it." Really? Foresight? Please. The point with that trade, which I didnt even bring up in my original post cause I really didnt think it was up for debate, has always been that WK should have got much more for two everyday starters. Majewski is garbage plain and simple. We got Bill Bray for two everyday players.

    Josh Hamilton I'm sorry but I wont give that one to Krivsky. If Jerry Narron was not the manager Hamilton never gets his chance with the Reds.

    Alex Gonzalez we will see how you feel about him making 5 mil per half way through this season or even into next.

    Hopper and Keppinger are good players. The test will be to see if Krivsky is smart enough to do with them what he should. Both should be key role players off the bench, but what will happen is Krivsky will dump Edwin in some kind of deal for Noah Lowry. So Keppinger will start everyday and by the all star break reality will have set in. (see David Ross 06 to 07) Lowry will be nightmare but oh well. And as for Hopper he will plantoon in center with Hamilton.

    Go ahead and give him credit for other peoples minor leaguers because boy does Drew Stubbs really excite me.

    How are we set on offense and defense for next season? We dont have a catcher. We desperately need to move Junior but it wont happen. And our bullpen is a mess. It was bad in 06 and Krivsky some how made it worse in 07. Castro, Stanton, and Conine dont belong on major league rosters. And when your a small market team you cant afford to waste money on trash. Sorry I havent been impressed.

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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    kbreak, Narron never knew Hamilton was available rule 5. Krivsky like any good GM noticed, and knowing his past potential, asked those who he knew what they thought. Then Narron said "by all means". We are not questioning Narron's evaluations here, he was just a crappy Mgr. I will re-iterate and para-phrase my previous post: If in fact Krivsky was the architect of the Twins system as we are led to believe, keep him. Check the record.

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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    Krivsky has made a few mistakes in attempting to upgrade the bullpen. He also failed to improve the starting pitching last season when he stayed pat with the starting rotation of Harang. Arroyo, Lohse, Belisle, and Milton. That was an understandable mistake if he thought that the Reds would duplicate or improve on their 2006 record. I would hope he would be able to trade or sign in FA a starting pitcher or two to short deals and improve the ballclub. Otherwise, I think he has done a fine job in improving the talent on the roster and he had done nothing for Castellini to want to get rid of him.

  16. #15
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    Re: Castellini: Krivsky's safe

    Quote Originally Posted by gedred69 View Post
    kbreak, Narron never knew Hamilton was available rule 5. Krivsky like any good GM noticed, and knowing his past potential, asked those who he knew what they thought. Then Narron said "by all means". We are not questioning Narron's evaluations here, he was just a crappy Mgr. I will re-iterate and para-phrase my previous post: If in fact Krivsky was the architect of the Twins system as we are led to believe, keep him. Check the record.
    I know Narron was a horrible manager trust me I think we are all on the same page there haha. My point is without Johnny and Jerry Narron I dont think Hamilton would be a Red and I think it is fair to say that.

    And sorry but I think Ryan the actual GM had more to do with building that franchise.

    Krivsky has proved that he is good at finding talent in low risk/high reward players. Cantu I think could be another. My problem has been his drafts, and what he has done in free agency. I would much rather sit on the money than give anything to Conine, Stanton, and Castro.

    I will give alot of credit to Krivsky for one key move.....not dealing Dunn when all the pressure was on from ignorant fans and even more ignorant announcers.


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