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Thread: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

  1. #526
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Because he's black? That didn't take long. There's been a long stream of intelligent and well throught out positions pro/con on Dusty since the news broke. Yea. Obviously racism.
    I'd think the last thing the local media would like to pursue with Baker was a racism angle given some of his comments in the past.

    Lets talk baseball Doc PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  3. #527
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Tell him to read a little closer.

    The points being made on all sides are coherent and well-argued. Yes -- Dusty has a great history of success as a manager. But, there are red flags all over the place that seem to indicate he'll be a poor fit in this city with this team.

    To throw the race card out there now is just lazy writing, IMO.
    He didn't....callers did.


    yes, it's lazy, by the callers to throw it in....

    I have plenty of reasons why I don't want Dusty here......and none of them are because of his skin color

  4. #528
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Vets over rookies.
    This may have been rehashed already, but just curious what promising rookies languished on the bench because Dusty decided to play vets over them.

    Ryan Theriot came up to the Cubs last year, but if he was sitting it was because Ronny Cedeno(Age 23) was playing in front of him.

    I hear two contradictory criticisms of Baker.
    He play vets over rookies, and he plays guys like Corey Patterson(ages 23-25) way too much.
    I've heard this tweaked to say if you produce than he'll play you no matter what, but if you're a rookie and you struggle, then he'll play the struggling veteran over you.
    This is probably true of any manager who hasn't been given assurances that he'll manage beyond the next year.
    I understand the criticism of Neiffi and Jose Macias, but as was mentioned at about page 10, every manager has their own personal blind spots.

    I'm not sure about the Giants, but the Cubs farm system hasn't exactly had a whole lot to write home about the last few years.

    As for the arm wrecking, he is old school no doubt, but Wood and Prior were likely headed for the good doctor regardless of who managed. For every Wood and Prior, I can point to Zambrano and Hernandez, two guys that throw a ton of pitches every year with seemingly no ill affect.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  5. #529
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    He didn't....callers did.


    yes, it's lazy, by the callers to throw it in....

    I have plenty of reasons why I don't want Dusty here......and none of them are because of his skin color
    I didn't listen, but that is just beyond disappointing if race factored at all into the fans discussion of Baker's hiring.
    Championships Matter.
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Back to my original point.
    Who was buried on the Cubs bench or in AAA that has gone on to starring roles elsewhere or since Dusty left.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    Looks like Doc has been visiting here.

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...PT04/310140013
    This just confirms why my house/car are 700 WLW free zones after 6:00pm!


    I never thought there was anyway they could come up w/ a downgrade from Furman but sure enough they have.

  8. #532
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    About the only positive thing I can say about the hiring of Dusty Baker is that sometimes a team wins despite, not because of, its manager. For example, in 1982 the Orioles won 94 games with Earl Weaver at the helm and just missed winning the AL East. The next season, with Joe Altobelli as manager, the O's won 98 games and the World Series. Does anybody believe that Altobelli was a better manager than Weaver?
    Sometimes you are just lucky. A few players have career years, a few new rookies or acquisitions suddenly do better than you could have imagined, and...well you are lucky-you get hot, you win more than your share of close games-and you are a winner. In those instances, you tend to fall back the next season.
    So that's the best I can do when it comes to Dusty Baker. Maybe the Reds will be lucky and win despite him.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  9. #533
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Back to my original point.
    Who was buried on the Cubs bench or in AAA that has gone on to starring roles elsewhere or since Dusty left.
    There's a side to this equation you have to take into account.

    It's not just that Dusty Baker would let potentially promising young position players rot on the bench for extended stretches. It's that he would play veterans over them who should not have seen the kind of playing time they got. It's one thing when you keep a promising young player on the bench because you have a pretty good veteran producing. It's another thing when you trot out Neifi Perez every day as a top of the order hitter instead of one of those promising young players.

    In other words, Dusty was a-okay with starting arguably the worst everyday player of this generation over someone like Ronny Cedeno or Ryan Theriot. That doesn't speak well to his judgment.

  10. #534
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    I wonder, if someone like LaRussa didn't want to come into a rebuilding situation, why Big Dust would? Does he actually think the Reds have the talent to contend?
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  11. #535
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Everyone keeps mentioning the Cubs as Dusty's resume... whither the 10 years in San Francisco?

    Who were the young guys buried there?

  12. #536
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outshined_One View Post
    There's a side to this equation you have to take into account.

    It's not just that Dusty Baker would let potentially promising young position players rot on the bench for extended stretches. It's that he would play veterans over them who should not have seen the kind of playing time they got. It's one thing when you keep a promising young player on the bench because you have a pretty good veteran producing. It's another thing when you trot out Neifi Perez every day as a top of the order hitter instead of one of those promising young players.

    In other words, Dusty was a-okay with starting arguably the worst everyday player of this generation over someone like Ronny Cedeno or Ryan Theriot. That doesn't speak well to his judgment.
    It's up to Wayne to limit Dusty having those opportunities.

    There is no reason to have someone described as "arguably the worst everyday player of this generation" on any roster. So shame on Dusty for playing him, but shame on the GM for having him on the roster.

  13. #537
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I didn't listen, but that is just beyond disappointing if race factored at all into the fans discussion of Baker's hiring.
    You're surprised?

  14. #538
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Everyone keeps mentioning the Cubs as Dusty's resume... whither the 10 years in San Francisco?

    Who were the young guys buried there?
    Those 10 years have been expunged from the records with an asterisk in their place

    One thing that has happened since the Reds left the West and you see those teams a few times a year out here is that you forget they play when they aren't coming to town but once a year. Another feather in Bud Ball.
    Last edited by traderumor; 10-14-2007 at 06:48 PM.

  15. #539
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Everyone keeps mentioning the Cubs as Dusty's resume... whither the 10 years in San Francisco?

    Who were the young guys buried there?
    My memory's not what it used to be, but I recall that I absolutely hated playing Dusty's Giants. They seemed to out-everything the Reds--and not just at Candlestick, either.

    I'm sure that's favorably swaying my opinion of the hire, right or not.

  16. #540
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    it was the the innovative philosophical transformation of the Indians FO by Shapiro where the reliance upon a statistically-driven system formed the core of their philosophy that allowed them to retool so quickly and successfully.
    Yeah, why am I not surprised that this view of the Indians' success is completely software-centric? I'm sure Diamondview is helpful, but more essential tools of the Indians current success were already there before Shapiro et al took over.

    Sabathia, signed in 1998.
    Peralta in 1999.
    Victor Martinez in 1996.
    Carmona, probably 2001 or 2002, and I doubt his signing in the Dominican owed anything to Diamondview.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini


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