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Thread: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

  1. #571
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Thanks for the post. Who wrote that though? How pointless was the article? Dusty Baker wanted a job running one of the 30 teams in the greatest sport in the world. WOW. Big shock.
    Scott Miller on CBS Sportsline. I thought the telling quote was that BCast chased Baker for weeks. Not Krivsky--Castellini.

    I don't know what to think right now, but the whole thing will either be a huge success or a collosial failure.

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  3. #572
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    What are they paying him? $4 million. Good grief, they paid the wonderful tandem of Cromier, Stanton, and Lohse more than that!
    On an off-topic note, I'll never understand how a league average starter at 4M (for only 1 year btw) continues to get lumped in with guys like Stanton and Cormier.

    Pitchers like Lohse have a market value at 8M+. See what he gets in free agency. He was a great addition at little cost.

  4. #573
    Little Reds BandWagon Reds Nd2's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    No, like I said, he wouldn't be my choice. Of course, I'd question how many of those kids will actually play for the Reds if Dusty is the manager. Expect the youth movement to be minimized if he's at the helm. His arrival would portend an entirely different gameplan for this organization. It would be all about winning now.

    I've been saying for years that this franchise needs to make a serious commitment in a single direction - load up or rebuild. If the club hires Baker then it would seem that load up is the choice.
    I'm just not that sure about the winnining now part gameplan. I've always thought that '08 was the game plan for the franchise. I'm just not sure DB helps that plan along. In fact, I think it may hinder any long term plans of this team winning consistantly for years to come.
    "...You just have a wider lens than one game."
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  5. #574
    Member Topcat's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    I am truly not pleased with the hiring of Dusty Baker at all. As a Redsfan I hope it works out, but I fear for the future Of Homer and Cueto and any young arm going forward with dusty the definition of pitching abuse Baker.
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

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  6. #575
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Nd2 View Post
    I'm just not that sure about the winnining now part gameplan. I've always thought that '08 was the game plan for the franchise. I'm just not sure DB helps that plan along. In fact, I think it may hinder any long term plans of this team winning consistantly for years to come.
    I think you need to separate the intention from the ability to execute. Baker certainly indicates the intention to win now is there, that in fact the organization expects to win now. It may wind up horribly and bitterly disappointed, but it's not the same as handing the keys over Miley or Narron and hoping they can reach the end of the season in one piece. Expect the word "compete" to get tossed into the incinerator and the franchise to put some money beyond the verbeage.

    They certainly might screw it up, but damned if they don't want it.
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  7. #576
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
    I am truly not pleased with the hiring of Dusty Baker at all. As a Redsfan I hope it works out, but I fear for the future Of Homer and Cueto and any young arm going forward with dusty the definition of pitching abuse Baker.
    Though look at it from another angle. If you call them up to the majors in their early 20s, you're probably abusing them anyway. It's not like you've got to wait 100 pitches until you start screwing them up. From pitch one, you might be asking them to push beyond sound mechanics to get big league hitters out.

    It's no secret that the flameout rate for young pitchers is through the roof, but say one or both catch lightning in a bottle and start mowing down big leaguers. Maybe that kid's only got a year or two at the top. If so, do you want him to throw 180 IP or 220? You're running a small market team and you've got a window open right now, for the first time in ages. You've paid for two staff bulwarks and now you've got a cheap phenom or two to join them, to make a real push at a championship. Are you going to let that pass because you want to take it easy on a kid who might breakdown or backslide anyway? You can't know or control the future, but you can do something about today.

    I'll put it to you this way, if Dusty Baker rode Bailey and Cueto hard and won like crazy with them, I wouldn't shed a tear if they had short careers.

    People keep praising the Indians around here. They didn't take it easy on Fausto Carmona this year and they've always ridden C.C. Sabathia hard. They never took it easy on Jeremy Sowers or Cliff Lee either and those two guys broke down this year.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  8. #577
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    http://www.sportsline.com/columns/we...entry/10383530

    It's not perfect, but Reds are Baker's best option now

    Most likely, Dusty Baker doesn't know something you don't. He did not agree to a three-year deal believed to be worth between $11 million and $12 million to manage in Cincinnati because he thinks the Reds are ready to win now.

    No, Baker has a burning desire to manage again, to not let his career end on that 66-96 downer he and last year's Cubs produced, and the simple fact is that after sitting out a year, there really aren't any ready-made situations whereby a skipper can move in and win immediately.

    Cincinnati owner Bob Castellini has been wooing Baker for weeks. The Reds remain far from perfect, what with a dearth of pitching, the Ken Griffey Jr. problem (he's an older, injury-prone player past his prime that they really can't shed) and a middle-of-the-order slugger in Adam Dunn who strikes out way too often and is a defensive liability.

    Baker, of course, has plenty of experience in managing superstars in various stages of decline -- Barry Bonds in San Francisco, Sammy Sosa with the Cubs -- and knows the National League extremely well. The players still love him, he still has that energy at 58, and one of the hard truths in the game is that the longer you stay away, the easier it is for clubs to forget about you.

    Baker did not want to be forgotten, so he surveyed the landscape and made the best of it.

    Seattle would have been a a solid fit, but the Mariners made interim John McLaren their full-time skipper.

    There still might be an opening with the Yankees that could come as early as this week, but if Joe Torre is axed, Steinbrenner family favorite Don Mattingly, currently Torre's bench coach, is expected to get that job. Or perhaps former Marlins manager and current Yankees broadcaster Joe Girardi.

    The St. Louis situation could be fluid depending on Tony La Russa's decision, but hiring a manager who flamed out with the hated Cubs would be a hard sell in that town
    !@#$%^&*

    Wow. I mean, I was never a fan of this move to begin with, but this just makes me go overboard now. What a waste of financial resources. That kind of money could easily sign a dependable reliever or be put towards the contract of a back of the rotation kind of starter. What this also signals is that Dusty will play out his contract in Cincinnati regardless of the results because of the investment made.

    I'm really disappointed now.

  9. #578
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post

    Wow. I mean, I was never a fan of this move to begin with, but this just makes me go overboard now. What a waste of financial resources. That kind of money could easily sign a dependable reliever or be put towards the contract of a back of the rotation kind of starter. What this also signals is that Dusty will play out his contract in Cincinnati regardless of the results because of the investment made.
    That's probably true, but there's the small possibility that this is the beginning of something we're not used to: Do what it takes. Need a big-name manager? Do what it takes. Need a reliever? Do what it takes.

  10. #579
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    1. The money. Anyone think the Reds could really have hired a "name" - any guy with a ML resume - LaRussa, Brenly, Girardi, Torre, Macha - anyone? Including Dusty - and NOT paid big bucks and a multi-year? Come on. That's just not happening. If it was budget wanted then the ONLY choice was MacKanin. And the board would have screamed then that the Reds remained ever cheap.

    2. In house Outhouse. Get someone from outside the clique, get a fresh perspective - don't hire the same guys from the same organization - AGAIN. So they don't. And they are reviled anyway. It is different, it IS a shakeup over the same ol' same ol' but again damned if you do/damned if you don't.

    3. We need attitude. That's been a common refrain (and one I agree with). So they hire a guy who is one of the surly managers, attitude plus. Players like him but he'll get in their face fast if need be. Still someone with an attitude gets hired - BUT anyone but him is the cry! All I can think is who? Girardi? Lord no, Baker has him "dusted" as a manager. Girardi was the one guy, followed by Brenly, that I detested as a possible candidate. In context I'm doing cartwheels over Baker's hiring. I even think he's a better candidate overall than Mac and I felt had Girardi and Brenly beat hands down.

    Finally - the "I'll quit rooting for the Reds" over Baker stuff. Ya gotta be kidding me. Seriously. The franchise of Luke Sewell, Bucky Walters (great pitcher horrid manager), Don Heffner, Russ Nixon, Vern Rapp, Ray Knight, Bob Boone and Dave Miley? The Reds have always competed with best(worst) for managers with suckitude. I'll NEVER quit being a Reds fan, period. If they bomb out for the next 20 years and I die never seeing a winning season I'll still root for them, watch them, gnash my teeth, shred my garments, lament, wail and hope for better every season. Dusty Baker is far, far from the thing that would make me quit being a Reds fan. I can't even fathom anyone feeling different if they are really a fan. If you want to win and compete all the time root for the Yankees or Bosox. I don't mean that as a knock either. If losing really downs you, and periods of ineptitude gnaw at you until you wanna go watch another team - then you should. Because this franchise has swung pretty wildly through its history from really, really terrible to pretty good, with one brief era of dominance. Maybe that's what spoiled some. Historically, though the 70s were a huge aberration.

    One thing about Dusty's hiring. Next season will almost certainly be different. I hope it's better as well. Since I'm in the extreme minority who think this is a pretty good hire (Baker seems to be the type who turns a franchise around then sees it go south after 3 or 4 seasons; I'd hire him, keep him for his contract and then no matter what - I'd find a new manager. So I think he'll bring about immediate gains for a year or two, run at the central title then I think you get a guy (with a more even keel shall we say?) to take over once Baker begins to wear thin.

  11. #580
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    I love how Dunn is a defensive liability who strikes out too much. I wonder how they'd describe Manny? The real story is that old school baseball men struggle to see the value in a guy who hits just .260 in a good year. If he hit .300 with 20 HR nobody would care about his defense.

    This is going to be par for the course moving forward -- except expect it to come from our manager.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #581
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    1. Im lookwarm on this signing. Dusty is better than the past managers. Narron, Miley, and Boone were all managers who put their team at a disadvantage whenever they stepped onto the field. MacKanon was still an unknown. If you take away the typical boost that every intern manager gets when the previous manager is fired he did nothing to impress.

    2. Dusty ruined Kerry Wood's arm is just like saying McKenon ruined Scott Williamsons arm. Mark Prior was a different story but if I remember correctly wasn't he rushed to the majors because most in the organizatoin thought he was MLB ready when he was drafted.

    3. I hear that Dusty always played veterans over younger players but I just dont remember many young players coming up in the Cubs and Giants organizatoin. The Giants have always had veteran players and seemed to go the FA route quite a bit. To that fact when you have the two best players in baseball in Kent and Bonds you are going to ride them.

    4. I hope this is a GM Mangager relationship that Epstein has with Francona. Epstein shut down Buckhotz becuase he had reach his max number if innings. I can see Krivsky doing the same with a rookie pitcher if he pitches too many innings.

    5. Baker has something to prove. His last season was a disaster in Chicago. It doesn't help much when your MVP candidate 1b goes down early in the season and your pitching staff is bad. The best thing about this hire is that Baker does have something to prove. He was one of the most sought after managers about 4 years ago and now many reds fans are mad tha the reds hired him.

    6. Its going to be refreshing to have a manager protect his players. Narron was horriable at that. During his tenure I wanted to see him protect Edwin when a call went against him. Or come out of the dougout storming mad during a long losing streak but he never did. Baker will do that and the reds will be a better team because of that. Players play harder for a manager when they realize that he will have their back.

  13. #582
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    XM just had Ken Rosenthal on for his weekly spot, and he said he "understands that Dusty was asked about Woods and Prior during his interview, and his answer was apparently satisfactory".
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  14. #583
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I'll put it to you this way, if Dusty Baker rode Bailey and Cueto hard and won like crazy with them, I wouldn't shed a tear if they had short careers.
    I will because he doesn't have enough pieces in place to win EASILY with them. The pen is a shambles, and defensively this team is Phillips, an improving EE and a BUNCH of ????'s

    I take 4 months off, and this is what brings me back? I swear ownsership and the FO are trying to make me take up hockey.

    anyhow.... Do I want to see 120 pitch efforts blown up by this sorry pen? do we want to see ridiculous pitch counts and 10-16 records to show for it? Because Dusty's management style suggest that very outcome. Krivsky better find some QUALITY arms for the pen, or we could see a ver abused rotation with NOTHING to show for it.

    And now I slip back into obscurity
    Suck it up cupcake.

  15. #584
    Member RedsFan75's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    bucksfan brings up some very good points.

    I think I've decided to wait and see...

    One can only hope.
    In those things which we commit to practice we can master, and with mastery we have the freedom to use these skills whenever we desire, without this practice we are slaves to our inability.

  16. #585
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    OK

    Concerns have been expressed, rightfully so, by many here at RZ (including myself). I've read through all of this gargantuan thread, contributed my own doubts and fears, and the bottom line is that I am a Reds fan first.

    Bob Castellini is trying to win. He's making an effort. We might all disagree on how to get there, and I understand that most of us prefer a more "modern" approach to winning, but Castellini is trying, as best he knows how, to make this work.

    It's a beautiful fall day here in Cincinnati; it's going to be about 80 and sunny today. I've complained, and now I am done. It's time for me to be more positive. Dusty Baker is the manager of my team, the Cincinnati Reds. I'm feeling like being optimistic today; yes, it really is a decision, to be positive and optimistic, at least for me.

    The past is the past. I'm going to assume Dusty has learned from the mistakes that he made in Chicago. I like to think I am open-minded, and there is also a lot to like about Dusty Baker, especially as compared to managers we've had here in the past. He's not perfect, but then none of the candidates out there are.
    Dusty has been a winner; that's a good start.

    So, until or unless Dusty starts frowning on walks as "base-cloggers" and running Arroyo and Harang out there for 120-130 pitches, I am done with complaining about Dusty Baker.

    I don't care how he does it as long as he brings victories and doesn't abuse the pitchers. Rookies, vets, old guys, new guys- I don't care. Maybe that's just what this team needs- new blood and a shakeup.

    Welcome to Cincinnati, Dusty; I hope you have a long, productive stay here


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