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Thread: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

  1. #1
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    I just heard an interesting comment on XM. Some people are suggesting that Big Papi - Manny is the best one - two punch in the history of baseball.

    They are devastating, no doubt. But the best ever?

    Just off the top of my head I'm thinking about Mantle - Maris and Mays - McCovey from the '60's.

    Remember when comparing numbers, that was a pitchers era.

    So, who do you think is the greatest one - two punch in history?
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig. Case closed.
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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    I am about to go off the board on this one.... but how about Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling circa 2001?

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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am about to go off the board on this one.... but how about Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling circa 2001?

    Hmmmm... my stuck in the '60's mind comes up with Koufax - Drysdale
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig. Case closed.
    Those were the two names that immediatly popped into my head.

    Mantle and Maris were historic in '61 and had a good three-year run, but Ruth and Gehrig put up big numbers together for seven or eight years. It's unfair to call anyone the best anything in history while they're still playing. The Red Sox duo can more accurately be judged 20 years from now, after the era they played in can be put into better perspective. By then, I doubt they'll be mentioned in the same breath with names like Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, and Mays.

    I think it also makes a difference whether we're talking about one isolated season or a span of seasons.

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    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig. Case closed.
    1927
    Gehrig 373/474/765/1239 47 HR 175 RBI 109 BB 10 SB RC/G 14.0
    Ruth 356/486/772/1258 60 HR 137 RBI 137 BB 7 SB RC/G 14.6

    No doubt. I'd be shocked if any other duo even came close.

    GL

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    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig. Case closed.

    Totally agree. They were the first one I thought of when I saw this. I don't really think any other combo compares.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig. Case closed.
    I don't need to read any further or put anymore thought to this...undoubtedly the VERY BEST 1-2 punch ever.
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

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    Yay! dabvu2498's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong View Post
    1927
    Gehrig 373/474/765/1239 47 HR 175 RBI 109 BB 10 SB RC/G 14.0
    Ruth 356/486/772/1258 60 HR 137 RBI 137 BB 7 SB RC/G 14.6

    No doubt. I'd be shocked if any other duo even came close.

    GL
    That's sick.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    History obviously only happened if it was on TV.

    Code:
    1886
    Cap Anson 14.69 RC/27
    King Kelly   16.39 RC/27
    
    1927
    Ruth - 14.95 RC/27
    Gehrig - 14.15 RC/27
    
    1929
    Hornsby - 12.31 RC/27
    Wilson - 10.01 RC/27
    
    1961
    Mantle - 12.90 RC/27
    Maris - 8.15 RC/27
    
    2007 
    David Ortiz - 9.97 RC/27
    Manny Ramirez - 6.53 RC/27

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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    Anyone suggesting that Ortiz/Ramirez might be the best ever is short-sighted and ignorant of baseball history. I'd be interested in seeing their list of the other "greatest ever"s.

    Greatest closer ever: Jonathan Papelbon
    Greatest starting pitcher ever: Josh Beckett
    Greatest mid-season callup ever: Jacob Ellsbury
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong View Post
    1927
    Gehrig 373/474/765/1239 47 HR 175 RBI 109 BB 10 SB RC/G 14.0
    Ruth 356/486/772/1258 60 HR 137 RBI 137 BB 7 SB RC/G 14.6

    No doubt. I'd be shocked if any other duo even came close.

    GL
    Wait..they are both lefties! shouldn't we split them up?
    Go Gators!

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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    History obviously only happened if it was on TV.
    I had to re-read RFS's post to note that the comment was made by XM, because my initial reaction was that calling Big Papi and Manny the best one-two punch ever was typical of ESPN, where history is usually deemed to have only happened if it appeared on COLOR TV, and usually only after ESPN was created.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    Unless it came from the Angels pitching staff. They might have reason to be imagining so.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  16. #15
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Best one-two punch in the history of baseball

    A look at it from Beantown...

    http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Hea...two_punch.html

    Mar 14, 2007:

    One-Two Punch
    Just How Good Is the Dynamite Duo of David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez?

    BDD's Exclusive Excerpt of the Maple Street Press 2007 Red Sox Annual:
    Maple Street Press 2007 Red Sox Annual

    Since Big Papi was picked up off the scrap heap following the 2002 season, he and Manny Ramirez have ranked with some of the all-time great combinations from a New England perspective, rivaling Orr and Esposito, Russell and Cousy, even Lexington and Concord.

    During their four years in the Sox lineup together, Ramirez and Ortiz have socked 333 homers, a sum eclipsed only by Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig (359 for the 1927-1930 Yankees) and Ken Griffey, Jr. and Alex Rodriguez (352 for the 1996-99 Mariners) among teammates batting consecutively in the order. Their 1,005 runs batted in ranks fourth all-time behind the aforementioned pairs and the tandem of Al Simmons and Jimmie Foxx (1929-1932 Athletics).

    In 2004, Ramirez and Ortiz were the first American League teammates since Ruth and Gehrig to each hit at least .300 with 40 home runs and 100 RBI. It would be simple to rest on those numbers, but digging deeper into the data uncovers a lot more about how fortunate Boston fans have been to watch these guys.

    So, just how good are Ortiz and Ramirez as a one-two punch? How do they stack up with other great tandems in team and baseball history? To obtain a baseline comparable to Ortiz and Ramirez, we’ll consider only those players that batted consecutively in the order for the majority of four straight seasons. A few exceptions can be made for injuries and for time missed serving military commitments, but the restriction rules out most platoon players. For those who played together longer than four seasons, we’ll look only at their most collectively productive stretch.

    The teammates should also be somewhat balanced in their production. There have been countless lopsided pairings over baseball history that, taken in sum, might pass statistical muster. But to include duos such as Nap Lajoie and Bill Bradley (1903-06 Indians), or Tris Speaker and Larry Gardner (1919-22 Indians) would defeat the spirit of the study. Players’ achievements must stand out individually as well as collectively.

    These criteria narrow the field substantially. In addition, 30 years of free agency has spurred players to jump ship in search of better deals, leaving team rosters far less stable. The pickings are made even slimmer by managers’ tendencies to shuffle lineups to play match-ups, hot streaks, or hunches.

    The selected filters still leave 40 highly productive duos to consider. Nearly all include at least one present Hall-of-Famer or a strong candidate for future induction. Ranking the duos involves some subjectivity, which is the fun part of a study like this. There is really no reliable way to weight each of the metrics appropriately. An effort can be made to strike a balance between gross and rate-based production, and to note any disparities between the hitters in each pairing.

    Once tabulated, the data generates a few surprises.

    For one thing, the famed Roger Maris and Mickey Mantle didn’t crack the top 10. Due to injuries, they barely combined for a full season’s production in 1963. Had they remained healthy, they’d likely rank in the top five tandems. Still, Mantle created 10.2 runs every 27 outs and logged a 189 OPS+, while Maris put up 7.2 and 150 numbers. Their 295 combined homers ranks ninth despite the shortage in playing time.

    The Top 10 shapes up like this:

    10. Willie Mays and Orlando Cepeda, 1961-64 Giants
    9. Edgar Martinez and Ken Griffey Jr., 1996-99 Mariners
    8. David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez, 2003-06 Red Sox
    7. Jim Edmonds and Albert Pujols, 2002-05 Cardinals
    6. Ty Cobb and Harry Heilmann, 1921-1924 Tigers
    5. Barry Bonds and Jeff Kent, 1999-2002 Giants
    4. Eddie Mathews and Hank Aaron, 1959-62 Braves
    3. Al Simmons and Jimmie Foxx, 1929-32 Athletics
    2. Ted Williams and Jimmie Foxx, 1939-42 Red Sox
    1. Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig, 1927-30 Yankees

    -- Mark Brown is a reporter for the Falmouth Enterprise newspaper on Cape Cod and a member of Sons of Sam Horn.

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