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Thread: Reds hire Baker as new manager

  1. #181
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    Re: Reds hire Baker as new manager

    Brennaman: Baker a solid choice
    Broadcaster says team 'committed to getting this thing right'
    BY SHANNON RUSSEL

    The Reds’ move to bring in a big-name manager shows the country that the organization is committed to producing a winning product.

    That’s veteran broadcaster Thom Brennaman’s take on new Reds manager Dusty Baker.

    Brennaman spent years with the Arizona Diamondbacks and Chicago Cubs and continues to do major league postseason telecasts for FOX. He shared his views on the national impact of Baker’s hiring before Wayne Krivsky and Bob Castellini introduced the manager at today’s press conference in Great American Ball Park.

    “He was a great player. He’s been a very, very successful manager. Has he won the World Series? No. Has he gotten to the World Series? Yeah,” Brennaman said. “I saw him a lot in my 11 years in Arizona when he was managing the Giants. The job he did there was second to none of anybody in all of baseball. I think it sends a great signal to all of baseball that the Reds are committed to getting this thing right.”

    Brennaman has known Baker for years and describes him as an ideal mix between a successful leader and a player’s coach.

    He brushed off popular criticisms – that Baker has mishandled pitchers, particularly Cubs hurlers Kerry Wood and Mark Prior – and called such comments “unfair.”

    “To begin with, they had injury problems before Dusty got there. The second part of it is you really can’t have it both ways. In Chicago they haven’t been to a World Series since 1945. And he was trying to ride those horses as hard as he could to get them to a World Series in 2003,” Brennaman said.

    “Would he do it differently now? Perhaps. But I don’t think it’s a fair indictment on him that he can’t handle the pitchers as it pertains to Kerry Wood and Mark Prior.”

    Brennaman said Baker was the most accomplished manager available. The bottom line, he said, is that Baker is a great fit for the Reds.

    “As far as length of time and success, Dusty was the best guy for the job,” Brennaman said.

    BAKER FAN: Chuck Harmon, the first African-American to play for the Reds in 1954, couldn’t have been happier with the Reds’ managerial selection.

    Decked out in a red jacket with a Reds hat and cane, Harmon was among those who applauded Baker upon his introduction. Baker is the Reds’ first African-American manager.

    When asked about Cincinnati progress in race relations, Baker said: “Hopefully there will come a time when you no longer look at me as an African-American manager or leader. You look at me as a man and a leader that’s going to lead your team regardless of who I am.”

    Harmon said Baker can’t worry about what people think of him, or he’ll “end up in the grave still worrying about” himself.

    “For every person that doesn’t like you, there are 10 or more that do,” Harmon said.

    MACKANIN: Krivsky said former interim manager Pete Mackanin was a serious contender for the position, and there will be a place in the Reds organization if Mackanin “thinks it’s the best place for him.”

    Mackanin has said he wants to pursue a big-league coaching job, but is open to returning as part of Baker’s staff. Baker said today he hasn’t discussed personnel issues yet.

    LEWIS’ TAKE: Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said he has yet to meet Dusty Baker, introduced earlier today as Reds manager, but added that he is "flattered" that Cincinnati has two African-American head coaches.

    "It’s not a black thing nor a white thing," Lewis said. "Let’s win a lot of football and baseball games."Lewis referred to Baker as "accomplished" and said that he knew the Reds ownership, the Castellini family, is happy to have Baker in the fold and wants to win badly.

    --Mark Curnutte

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  3. #182
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Reds hire Baker as new manager

    Yeah Marvin, feel free to start winning all those football games any time you please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  4. #183
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    Re: Reds hire Baker as new manager

    There is a very good thread on the ORG about Dusty's history with all the pitchers he has handled in the past. It is clear from that thread that he has always had high pitch counts with all the pitchers he has managed, and I would not expect that to change with the Reds. I fear that Arroyo, Harang, Bailey , and Cueto might suffer damage to their arms if there is not someone present who can curtail Dusty's excesses. Read that thread on the ORG, and you will see that there are plenty of starters who have had high pitch counts with Baker, not just Wood and Prior. The thread is called Dusty Baker's Pitch Count History. Pitch counts alone may not cause arm injuries, but they surely don't help.
    Last edited by AmarilloRed; 10-15-2007 at 11:48 PM.

  5. #184
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    Re: Reds hire Baker as new manager

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    It is clear from that thread that he has always had high pitch counts with all the pitchers he has managed, and I would not expect that to change with the Reds. I fear that Arroyo, Harang, Bailey , and Cueto might suffer damage to their arms if there is not someone present who can curtail Dusty's excesses.
    It is still a very debatable subject. IMO, if a pitcher's arm it going to break down, it's going to break down no matter how many pitches he throws per game. If there are physical flaws or he has poor mechanics, he is eventually going to face injuries no matter how many precautions you take.

    There is no way there is "clear" evidence that would 100% prove that what happened with Prior and Wood is Baker's fault.
    Last edited by jimbo; 10-16-2007 at 12:02 AM.

  6. #185
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    Re: Reds hire Baker as new manager

    The problem is that he has a history of doing it with all the SP he has managed, not just Wood and Prior. It is a very debatable subject though, and I expect we will continue to debate it for some time to come.

  7. #186
    Member jimbo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds hire Baker as new manager

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    The problem is that he has a history of doing it with all the SP he has managed, not just Wood and Prior.
    True, but the main criticism is that he is at fault for what happened to Prior and Wood. I don't remember any of his other starters having injury problems as Prior and Wood did. It's basically just speculation, although the argument is valid.

    It is a very debatable subject though, and I expect we will continue to debate it for some time to come.
    I have absolutely no doubt about that.

  8. #187
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    Re: Reds hire Baker as new manager

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    It is still a very debatable subject. IMO, if a pitcher's arm it going to break down, it's going to break down no matter how many pitches he throws per game. If there are physical flaws or he has poor mechanics, he is eventually going to face injuries no matter how many precautions you take.

    There is no way there is "clear" evidence that would 100% prove that what happened with Prior and Wood is Baker's fault.
    Right, you can't prove 100% that it was Baker's fault. You can prove that those two guys threw a whole lot of pitches though, and neither's career has been the same since. I know, correlation does not equal causation, but I think it is difficult to make the case that Baker had nothing to do with those injuries. The truth is probably somewhere in between full responsibility and no responsibility.

    I would be more willing to give him a pass for those injuries if I hadn't seen Prior's pitch counts for 2003. They are mind-boggling. We think of Harang as a horse who throws a lot of pitches, but he's never really been close to what happened to Prior that year.

  9. #188
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    Re: Reds hire Baker as new manager

    Actually, the pitch count stats on the pitchers that Baker had, show that pitch counts are over-rated. Two of the pitchers with high pitch counts burned out (Wood, Prior), two didn't (Zambrano, L. Hernandez). All four of the the ones with lower pitch counts burned out, although some burned out later than others.
    These facts are that Baker uses some pitcher longer than others, and has no problem running up the pitch counts on some young pitchers.
    However, these facts also show that a certain percentage of pitchers are going to blow out their arms, no matter how you handle them.
    I have a feeling that a larger sample will show different results, but the facts presented on the ORG do not prove that Baker ruins arms.

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    Re: Reds hire Baker as new manager



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