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Thread: Cleveland's LH starter Cliff Lee, anyone?

  1. #1
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Cleveland's LH starter Cliff Lee, anyone?

    I know the guy had a horrible year in 2007, but before this year, he was considered one of the better LH starting pitchers in the league.

    I'm pretty sure that Cleveland is returning it's entire rotation next year. I doubt Lee is in their plans. He might make a great reclamation project.

    His salary was 3 million this year. He is arb eligible, but he's unlikely to get a huge raise. I'm not positive, but I think if the Reds traded for them, they'd have him for 2008 and 2009 before free agency. He only turns 30 next year.

    If Lee can regain form, he's a solid #2/3.. If he flops -- well, he's a relatively inexpensive veteran
    for the back of the rotation. I like his chances of putting up numbers at least
    as good as some of the FA starters (like Lohse and Silva).

    Another thing I like about Lee is that he is an innings eater, which reduces
    the strain on our pen.. In 2006 and 2005, he pitched over 200 innings. In 2004, he
    had 179 IP.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  3. #2
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    I'd want to know a lot more about his diving K/9. His control is solid, but he's a flyball pitcher who isn't missing as many bats as he used to. He allowed 1.57 HR/9 in 2007.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    I'd offer Freel for him, see if they bite. He could play 2B or OF for them.

    The salary would be a wash and I'd rather have a lefthanded pitching spare part than an outfield spare part.
    Last edited by Benihana; 10-17-2007 at 10:35 AM.
    Go BLUE!!!

  5. #4
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    How about this deal. Edwin for John Lester. The BoSox are probably going to be in the market for a 3B and they have a glut of pitching. I dont even know if Lester cracks the starting staff with Buckholtz coming back next season. This would give the reds another young arm and moves Keppy into a starting roll at 3b.

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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    How about this deal. Edwin for John Lester. The BoSox are probably going to be in the market for a 3B and they have a glut of pitching. I dont even know if Lester cracks the starting staff with Buckholtz coming back next season. This would give the reds another young arm and moves Keppy into a starting roll at 3b.
    I would do that in a second, and I'm a huge EdE fan. I don't think the Sox would come close to it though.

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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    I would do that in a second, and I'm a huge EdE fan. I don't think the Sox would come close to it though.
    Agreed. The Sox are not trading Jon Lester, unless the return includes Bruce. He'll be in the rotation along with Buchholz.
    Go BLUE!!!

  8. #7
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    I'm not a fan of getting Lee at that sort of money, Freel would make the cahs about even but then when/if Lee is a bust all we have is squat
    Go Gators!

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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    I'm not a fan of getting Lee at that sort of money, Freel would make the cahs about even but then when/if Lee is a bust all we have is squat
    Freel for Lee would be a steal. Freel's ceiling has long past. The opportunity to get any pitching for Freel would be great. Freel is also expendible with Hoppers emergance. Hop seems to be a bit more stable health wise. Do it in a second.

  10. #9
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    Freel for Lee would be a steal. Freel's ceiling has long past. The opportunity to get any pitching for Freel would be great. Freel is also expendible with Hoppers emergance. Hop seems to be a bit more stable health wise. Do it in a second.
    I agree that Freel is very expendible and is well past his prime but don't you think other GM's would know that? I think Freel right now has a negative trade value and the only way you are going to move him is in a package.

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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I agree that Freel is very expendible and is well past his prime but don't you think other GM's would know that? I think Freel right now has a negative trade value and the only way you are going to move him is in a package.
    Perhaps. But Freel addresses the biggest holes in the Cleveland lineup (2B and OF). Like I said, see if they bite.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    I don't see anyway the Indians would trade a slumping Lee for a past his prime Freel. I just don't. I think they can do better than that. I think the offer would have to be better than Freel.

  13. #12
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    I agree that Freel for Lee would be a steal for the Reds.
    I also agree that since Freel is injured and owed something like 7 million
    over the next 2 years, he is worth very little (if anything) on the trade market.
    Also, when Freel was healthy, he did not perform well.

    I never liked giving Freel an extension. Freel is a utility man/4th OF, not a key
    cog on the team. Plus, the extension was unlikely to save us any money. Bottom line
    is that if Freel positioned himself to get a big arb raise, you just trade him off or
    DFA him. (The odds of that happening were real low). The guy was a huge injury risk.
    Dumb move by Wayne.

    I think that since pitching is in short supply, Lee would attract interest from other
    teams as well.

    What might work: Coffey and a couple of B prospects (one project for another). I don't
    know how much the Indians would like Coffey.

    Since the Indians are loaded right now, they might be willing to gamble on some Reds
    prospects that have a longer horizon. Shapario is always looking forward as well as the
    present (The Crisp trade, for example). That is actually an advantage of dealing with the
    Indians. They are a contender that really doesn't need that much immediate help, so they
    may be willing to trade excess ML talent without getting ML talent in return. It all depends
    on how much they've sowered on Lee. Speaking of which, the Reds should probe them about Sowers
    as well. I doubt the Indians have given up on him, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #13
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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Fine, throw in Juan Francisco. He has a power bat that would have to pique the interest of the Cleveland brass.
    Go BLUE!!!

  15. #14
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Dependent on what your scouts tell you about his mechanics (which could tip off larger health concerns), Lee could be a solid #4 guy (180+ IP, 4.50 or better ERA). He's a flyball pitcher, but he makes hitters miss and he could get a boost coming over to the weak sister NL. Ted Lilly's a flyball pitcher who had some questionable spots on his resume as well and he adapted just fine last fine to life on the Senior Circuit. The upside on Lee is you don't have to break the bank of a FA contract to get him. The right prospect or complimentary piece in the majors should do the trick.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #15
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Dependent on what your scouts tell you about his mechanics (which could tip off larger health concerns), Lee could be a solid #4 guy (180+ IP, 4.50 or better ERA). He's a flyball pitcher, but he makes hitters miss and he could get a boost coming over to the weak sister NL. Ted Lilly's a flyball pitcher who had some questionable spots on his resume as well and he adapted just fine last fine to life on the Senior Circuit. The upside on Lee is you don't have to break the bank of a FA contract to get him. The right prospect or complimentary piece in the majors should do the trick.
    I agree pretty much 100% with this. If we can acquire him for Freel or one of the B prospects, it's among the best combination of risk/rewards acquisitions we can make.

    It's going to be very hard to get much more for any less.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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