Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 37

Thread: Cleveland's LH starter Cliff Lee, anyone?

  1. #16
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    4,078

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Travis Wood, Todd Coffey, and Ryan Freel plus Cash to Indians

    Cliff Lee and Kelly Shoppach to Reds

    or

    Travis Wood, Todd Coffey, and Ryan Freel plus Cash to Indians

    Cliff Lee and Jansen Lewis to Reds

    Maybe toss in another mid level prospect to sweeten the deal..
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


    2008 Reds Record When I Attend: 9W - 5L

    2009 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 2L

    2010 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 0L

    2011 Reds Record When I Attend: 0W - 1L

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    20,897

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    Travis Wood, Todd Coffey, and Ryan Freel plus Cash to Indians

    Cliff Lee and Kelly Shoppach to Reds

    or

    Travis Wood, Todd Coffey, and Ryan Freel plus Cash to Indians

    Cliff Lee and Jansen Lewis to Reds

    Maybe toss in another mid level prospect to sweeten the deal..

    Sounds good.. Although I would give those 3 players for Lee straight up.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  4. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    2,271

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    The Indians would not be interested in any of those players. No need for any of them.

    Lee iirc is signed multi-year. The Indians may wish to get out from under that contract though they are not giving up on him as he is a lefty that has been successful. There is also the question if they can re-sign CC. If so they have Laffey, Sowers and Lee all competing for the 5th spot.

    Lee was injured to start the season while also being asked to change his mechanics a bit. He came back late and just never got on track. He did look impressive in his last outing (in relief). Sowers though looked even better. I like Sowers better and he is much cheaper/younger. I've mentioned Lee's falling K rate on here recently as well. It could be a red flag.

    Shoppach though I like, to repeat myself. I
    Last edited by Bill; 10-17-2007 at 08:48 PM.

  5. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    2,271

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Yea, he signed a 14 million 3 year extension summer of 06 so 2 years left and a club option for 2010 at 8 mill.
    Last edited by Bill; 10-17-2007 at 08:49 PM.

  6. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    1,045

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Isn't the FA market this offseason Glavine, Schilling, Silva and Lohse? If so, I would expect the Tribe to shop Lee, Byrd and Westbrook -- and take the best offer it can get on up to two out of the three. I would think that a slugging OF would be their primary target. Freel might work, though, as the Indians then could trade Barfield with impunity.

    If I'm Shapiro, there is no way that I deal Shoppach.

    Great idea on Lee, as he may be the most available of the three -- worst '07 and some run-ins with management.

  7. #21
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,134

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Yea, he signed a 14 million 3 year extension summer of 06 so 2 years left and a club option for 2010 at 8 mill.
    Will they want to pay that for a guy who maybe will be their 5th starter? If that's the situation, I can see where they might want to cash him in for a prospect or add to the bench, particularly in the OF, which has been a bit of a revolving door.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  8. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    2,271

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Once Carmona established himself after filling in for Lee early after Lee went on the DL, it appeared Cleveland had an abundance of arms and could deal one, but as such things go, the promising Sowers and the previously solid Lee imploded. Big-time prospect Adam Miller suffered elbow problems. Shapiro likes depth. They will pick up Byrd's 8 million option (and probably Borowski's 4 million). If Lee can return to form, he is still a relative bargain. The 5th starter is a question in each of Sowers, Lee and Laffey. They may wait until spring training to see how things shake out.

    That said, yes, they may want to just get out of Lee's deal to help pay for a CC extension. Lee also grumbled some about going to Buffalo. Lee also did not look good in his time in Buffalo. Walked a lot of batters iirc. Shapiro may not want that kind of depth. If they do want to move him, yes they need a corner OF but with Delucci (signed 2 more years at 8 mill), Michaels (one more year), Barfield on the bench Freel won't get it done.

    Lee's been discussed here a couple times briefly the last couple months. I think he bounces back, but I have doubts as to how much. I'm not sure he will be worth the money come 2009. Sowers on the other hand, his problems were more a shaken confidence/sophomore effect imo.

  9. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    2,271

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Here are the specifics of his deal. (the other concern with Lee is he gives up far too many HRs to pitch in GABP. Even if the Reds can get him for scrap, it's risky):

    Lee's deal, which took form during the all-star break last month, includes a $1 million signing bonus and increases his salary this year from $406,200 to $750,000. He gets $2.75 million next year, $3.75 million in 2008 and $5.75 million in 2009. Cleveland has an $8 million option for 2010.

  10. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    2,271

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    M2, thinking bigger than Lee and along the lines of your Santana thread, should the Reds make a push to acquire Sabathia if it appears Cleveland won't be able to sign him to an extension? He is under contract for 08 at 9 million plus a few incentives.

    Sabathia did not test FA waters last time as he is happy in Cleveland, but it seems he wants a 6-7 year deal. Shapiro of course wants to keep him, but is against deals that long for pitchers as it carries too much risk. If Cleveland decides they must deal him this off-season to get some value in return, should he be a Reds target? He is still just 27, has learned to pitch and should dominate the NL, but is overweight and would cost a lot to keep after '08.

  11. #25
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,134

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    If the Indians wanted to put Sabathia on the market, I'd hope the Reds would give them a call.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  12. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    2,271

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    It will come down to years Cleveland offers. We'll see. It will be worth watching.

    Interesting note on Sabathia; Santana may be the best pitcher in the world, but Sabathia beat him 3 times this year.

  13. #27
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Santa Paula, CA
    Posts
    6,536

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Would you trade Homer Bailey and Johnny Cueto (sp?) for Sabathia?

    That to me would be the kind of win-now move that other teams have tried. I just make the comparison, I do NOT say that this type of move always works out.
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  14. #28
    Member The Baumer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,295

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    No, no, no. Cliff Lee was ranked 3rd last year in self induced pitcher abuse points. We don't need a guy who'll beg his manager to stay in longer.

  15. #29
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,108

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    Travis Wood, Todd Coffey, and Ryan Freel plus Cash to Indians

    Cliff Lee and Kelly Shoppach to Reds

    or

    Travis Wood, Todd Coffey, and Ryan Freel plus Cash to Indians

    Cliff Lee and Jansen Lewis to Reds

    Maybe toss in another mid level prospect to sweeten the deal..
    Lets be honest here. We have seen enough of both Todd Coffey and Ryan Freel. We realize what their game is and where it could be. We also realize that the reds are better off without those two players. No team in their right mind would take Coffey and Freel off our hands for a starting pitcher. IMO both of them possess negative trade value and would only be dealable with another player.

  16. #30
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,134

    Re: Cliff Lee, anyone?

    You know what's kind of cool? We've got three threads running right now where we're speculating about big name pitchers (Sabathia in this thread, not so much Lee). Who knows what will materialize this winter, but for the first time in a long time we're casting our minds toward bigger possibilities. At the start of the 2006 season we were saying Sabathia was way too expensive to even consider. Now we're contemplating whether the Reds could get him. That's fun. It may be brief, but it's fun.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25