Travis Wood, Todd Coffey, and Ryan Freel plus Cash to Indians
Cliff Lee and Kelly Shoppach to Reds
or
Travis Wood, Todd Coffey, and Ryan Freel plus Cash to Indians
Cliff Lee and Jansen Lewis to Reds
Maybe toss in another mid level prospect to sweeten the deal..
Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar
Sounds good.. Although I would give those 3 players for Lee straight up.
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
The Indians would not be interested in any of those players. No need for any of them.
Lee iirc is signed multi-year. The Indians may wish to get out from under that contract though they are not giving up on him as he is a lefty that has been successful. There is also the question if they can re-sign CC. If so they have Laffey, Sowers and Lee all competing for the 5th spot.
Lee was injured to start the season while also being asked to change his mechanics a bit. He came back late and just never got on track. He did look impressive in his last outing (in relief). Sowers though looked even better. I like Sowers better and he is much cheaper/younger. I've mentioned Lee's falling K rate on here recently as well. It could be a red flag.
Shoppach though I like, to repeat myself. I
Last edited by Bill; 10-17-2007 at 08:48 PM.
Yea, he signed a 14 million 3 year extension summer of 06 so 2 years left and a club option for 2010 at 8 mill.
Last edited by Bill; 10-17-2007 at 08:49 PM.
Isn't the FA market this offseason Glavine, Schilling, Silva and Lohse? If so, I would expect the Tribe to shop Lee, Byrd and Westbrook -- and take the best offer it can get on up to two out of the three. I would think that a slugging OF would be their primary target. Freel might work, though, as the Indians then could trade Barfield with impunity.
If I'm Shapiro, there is no way that I deal Shoppach.
Great idea on Lee, as he may be the most available of the three -- worst '07 and some run-ins with management.
Will they want to pay that for a guy who maybe will be their 5th starter? If that's the situation, I can see where they might want to cash him in for a prospect or add to the bench, particularly in the OF, which has been a bit of a revolving door.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Once Carmona established himself after filling in for Lee early after Lee went on the DL, it appeared Cleveland had an abundance of arms and could deal one, but as such things go, the promising Sowers and the previously solid Lee imploded. Big-time prospect Adam Miller suffered elbow problems. Shapiro likes depth. They will pick up Byrd's 8 million option (and probably Borowski's 4 million). If Lee can return to form, he is still a relative bargain. The 5th starter is a question in each of Sowers, Lee and Laffey. They may wait until spring training to see how things shake out.
That said, yes, they may want to just get out of Lee's deal to help pay for a CC extension. Lee also grumbled some about going to Buffalo. Lee also did not look good in his time in Buffalo. Walked a lot of batters iirc. Shapiro may not want that kind of depth. If they do want to move him, yes they need a corner OF but with Delucci (signed 2 more years at 8 mill), Michaels (one more year), Barfield on the bench Freel won't get it done.
Lee's been discussed here a couple times briefly the last couple months. I think he bounces back, but I have doubts as to how much. I'm not sure he will be worth the money come 2009. Sowers on the other hand, his problems were more a shaken confidence/sophomore effect imo.
Here are the specifics of his deal. (the other concern with Lee is he gives up far too many HRs to pitch in GABP. Even if the Reds can get him for scrap, it's risky):
Lee's deal, which took form during the all-star break last month, includes a $1 million signing bonus and increases his salary this year from $406,200 to $750,000. He gets $2.75 million next year, $3.75 million in 2008 and $5.75 million in 2009. Cleveland has an $8 million option for 2010.
M2, thinking bigger than Lee and along the lines of your Santana thread, should the Reds make a push to acquire Sabathia if it appears Cleveland won't be able to sign him to an extension? He is under contract for 08 at 9 million plus a few incentives.
Sabathia did not test FA waters last time as he is happy in Cleveland, but it seems he wants a 6-7 year deal. Shapiro of course wants to keep him, but is against deals that long for pitchers as it carries too much risk. If Cleveland decides they must deal him this off-season to get some value in return, should he be a Reds target? He is still just 27, has learned to pitch and should dominate the NL, but is overweight and would cost a lot to keep after '08.
If the Indians wanted to put Sabathia on the market, I'd hope the Reds would give them a call.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
It will come down to years Cleveland offers. We'll see. It will be worth watching.
Interesting note on Sabathia; Santana may be the best pitcher in the world, but Sabathia beat him 3 times this year.
Would you trade Homer Bailey and Johnny Cueto (sp?) for Sabathia?
That to me would be the kind of win-now move that other teams have tried. I just make the comparison, I do NOT say that this type of move always works out.
No, no, no. Cliff Lee was ranked 3rd last year in self induced pitcher abuse points. We don't need a guy who'll beg his manager to stay in longer.
Lets be honest here. We have seen enough of both Todd Coffey and Ryan Freel. We realize what their game is and where it could be. We also realize that the reds are better off without those two players. No team in their right mind would take Coffey and Freel off our hands for a starting pitcher. IMO both of them possess negative trade value and would only be dealable with another player.
You know what's kind of cool? We've got three threads running right now where we're speculating about big name pitchers (Sabathia in this thread, not so much Lee). Who knows what will materialize this winter, but for the first time in a long time we're casting our minds toward bigger possibilities. At the start of the 2006 season we were saying Sabathia was way too expensive to even consider. Now we're contemplating whether the Reds could get him. That's fun. It may be brief, but it's fun.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
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