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Thread: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

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  1. #1
    Ya can't teach speed... Triples's Avatar
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    Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    In a thread in ORG, someone labeled Dusty Baker as old school. I understand the "old school" concept but I'm not sure I see how it applies in baseball. What is so different about the game today than in the "old days" what ever they are. And, why does Dusty Baker fall into the "old school" catagory.
    Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona. Not all holes, or games, are created equal. ~George Will


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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    I may be able to speak to this because I was a fan back in the "old days". It used to be that starting pitchers would go very deep into games, and relievers if used at all would only close out the game. Dusty likes to have his starting pitchers go deep into games, so he qualifies in that respect. Baserunning was also a very large part of the game to a much greater extent than it is now, and the only power hitters hit in the middle of the lineup. Rookies needed to prove themselves over several seasons, and I don't believe you would have ever seen a rookie starting at a position his very first year in the league. Dusty has a history of preferring veterans over rookies, so he could also be considered "old school" in this respect. These are just some of the ways things were different in the past as opposed to now, and I am sure some other members could speak to further differences.

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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    Old school: Batting average, stolen bases, rbi, pitcher wins, fielding %

    New school: There is a huge amount of statistical data now that attempts to quantify the value of a player. For hitters, on-base % + slugging % (OPS) is probably the most widely used "new school" stat. For pitchers, it's WHIP (walks + hits per innings pitched).

    There are way more and most of them are over my head, but when I think of new school vs. old school, I think of statheads vs. baseball guys. You'll find most of the Redszone statheads on ORG and if you read their stuff, some of it is actually very impressive and persuasive.

    Anyway, Dusty Baker with his obvious contempt for OBP (evidenced by his famous "walks clog the bases" quote, and his repeated insistence on batting speedy guys who can't get on base at the top of the order) is definitely "old school", which will probably one day be known as "ignorant school".
    FIRE DUSTY Never mind. The man is clearly a genius.

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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    Quote Originally Posted by Natty Redlocks View Post
    Anyway, Dusty Baker with his obvious contempt for OBP (evidenced by his famous "walks clog the bases" quote, and his repeated insistence on batting speedy guys who can't get on base at the top of the order) is definitely "old school", which will probably one day be known as "ignorant school".
    So all of the great managers of the past were "ignorant?"

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    So all of the great managers of the past were "ignorant?"
    No. You wouldn't call someone ignorant for not using the newest cancer treatments 100 years ago when those treatments didn't exist.

    Someone living in today's time who ignores the newest medicinal treatments available and pretends they don't even exist, however, is a close-minded buffoon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    No. You wouldn't call someone ignorant for not using the newest cancer treatments 100 years ago when those treatments didn't exist.

    Someone living in today's time who ignores the newest medicinal treatments available and pretends they don't even exist, however, is a close-minded buffoon.
    I hear what you are saying, but I don't think it's a fair comparison. The advancements of medicine is factual while the newer stats of today is not actual proof that "new school" is any better than "old school." It's just a different style. I like some of the new stats out today also, but do not think they are the say all and do all of baseball today. That doesn't make me a buffoon.

    I think there are lot of things about our society today that would be a lot better off if more "old school" was used.

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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I hear what you are saying, but I don't think it's a fair comparison. The advancements of medicine is factual while the newer stats of today is not actual proof that "new school" is any better than "old school." It's just a different style. I like some of the new stats out today also, but do not think they are the say all and do all of baseball today. That doesn't make me a buffoon.

    I think there are lot of things about our society today that would be a lot better off if more "old school" was used.
    Anyone who says walks "clog the bases" is, in my opinion, hopelessly stuck in the past instead of realizing that the ideal outcome for any trip to the plate is to NOT MAKE AN OUT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I hear what you are saying, but I don't think it's a fair comparison. The advancements of medicine is factual while the newer stats of today is not actual proof that "new school" is any better than "old school." It's just a different style. I like some of the new stats out today also, but do not think they are the say all and do all of baseball today. That doesn't make me a buffoon.

    I think there are lot of things about our society today that would be a lot better off if more "old school" was used.
    The "newer stats" simply reveal truths that were always there. Medicine is a great comparison. And "old school" guys ignore those truths at their peril, while "new school" guys like Billy Beane and Theo Epstein use them to their advantage, with increasing and undeniable success. When you ignore the facts (which is, by definition, what statistics are), it's called ignorance. Sorry if it sounds offensive, but it is what it is.
    FIRE DUSTY Never mind. The man is clearly a genius.

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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    Read the third quote in my sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    For what its worth, this is just my oppinion...but old school baseball is better...it might not win now but its better baseball

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    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    Ignorant school is a little harsh. How about this one. Hit the ball and run the bases until you see the umpire give the HR signal - old school. Hit the ball and stand at home plate admiring your shot and then have to settle for a single when the ball doesn't go out - new school. Which one is 'ignorant' there?

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Ignorant school is a little harsh. How about this one. Hit the ball and run the bases until you see the umpire give the HR signal - old school. Hit the ball and stand at home plate admiring your shot and then have to settle for a single when the ball doesn't go out - new school. Which one is 'ignorant' there?
    That's not "new school" baseball.

    C'mon.

    "New school" baseball is an ideology about statistics and what they represent, not showboating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    That's not "new school" baseball.

    C'mon.

    "New school" baseball is an ideology about statistics and what they represent, not showboating.
    To me "Old School, New School" is indicative of the way things used to be as opposed to the way things are now. This extends beyond a statistical approach to the game. Here is another example of "Old School, New School" to me: New School - players wear their pants down to the shoe tops. Old School - Players fold their pants under just pull the knee and you can see plenty of their sock. "Old School, New School" pertains to more than just analysts of the game. It includes owners, gms, managers, players, fans and a whole lot more, IMO.

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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    "New" school is a R-L-R-L-R-L-R batting order to keep the other team from using a certain pitcher late in the game even if your Rs or Ls cant hit or get on base.
    "Old" school is putting your on base guys in front of your RBI guys and getting a big enough lead to not worry about what pitcher you see late in the game.

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    Re: Dusty Baker "Old School"????

    Quote Originally Posted by DannyB View Post
    "New" school is a R-L-R-L-R-L-R batting order to keep the other team from using a certain pitcher late in the game even if your Rs or Ls cant hit or get on base.
    "Old" school is putting your on base guys in front of your RBI guys and getting a big enough lead to not worry about what pitcher you see late in the game.
    Actually, the "new school" approach would NEVER advocate batting players R-L-R-L simply to split up the lefties and righties. The "new school" approach would advocate setting up your line-up so that your highest OBP players get the maximum amount of at-bats without worrying about whether or not they are lefty or righty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"



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