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Thread: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

  1. #106
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Mark Prior's pitch counts of 115+ in 2003 ...

    May 12th: 124 pitches
    May 28th: 123 pitches
    June 3rd: 124 pitches
    June 19th: 119 pitches
    June 26th: 127 pitches
    July 1st: 115 pitches
    August 10th: 116 pitches
    August 15th: 118 pitches
    August 26th: 116 pitches
    ----------------------
    September 1st: 131 pitches
    September 6th: 129 pitches
    September 16th: 124 pitches
    September 21st: 131 pitches
    September 27th: 133 pitches
    October 3rd: 133 pitches

    October 8th: 116 pitches
    October 14th: 119 pitches

    FTR, Mark Prior turned 23-years-old in September of 2003.

    Yes, 2003 was a bad year for Dusty, as far as handling his Sp's anyway.

    Kerry Wood was #2 in PAP points, Mark Prior was #4 and the new kid, Carlos Zambrano was #11.

    But the good news (for Reds fans, anyway) is that 2003 was, by far, Dusty's worst year in handling pitching, at least as far as PAP points goes.

    I looked back on his years as manager, from '93-02 with SF, and then '03-'06 with the Cubs.

    Dusty's first 6 years he had exactly 0 (zero) SP's in the top 10 of PAP (pitcher abuse points).

    *then it started (SP's in the top 10 of PAP):

    '99- Russ Ortiz
    '00- Livan (to be fair, every year Livan pitches, he appears in the top 10 of PAP points)
    '01- Livan
    '02- Livan, Ortiz
    '03- Wood, Prior, and Zambrano (11th)
    '04- Zambrano
    '05- Zambrano, Prior
    '06- Zambrano


    To be complete, and fair, the same pitchers show up every single year on the PAP points. Most of them are seldom injured, and have pitched for years and years. These guys are workhorses. Names like, Schilling, Clemons, Johnson, Martinez (until of late), Harang, Livan, Schmidt, Halladay and Zambrano.

    Also of note- only one single time has Kerry Wood appeared in the top 10 of most abused pitchers (2003), and only twice has Prior (2003, 2005). Zambrano has appeared on the list every single year since 2003 (no matter who is managing him). I would term Zambrano (and Harang along with him) a HORSE. Some guys can throw a lot of pitches, and some guys cannot. Good for Lou, holding Zambrano to a lower pitch count in the playoffs, since he was planning on using him on short rest.

    Here's a question- Is it up to the manager to decide which SP's throw more pitches than others, or is it the responsibility of someone else to decide that?? in other words, is Dusty Baker responsible for 2003, and the ruination of Kerry Woods and Mark Prior? or are they just fragile arms? (which does indeed happen).

    I'm sure if Baker interviewed here, this was all discussed in detail. I'm going to assume that Kriv and his staff know more about baseball than I do.

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  3. #107
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    Good news

    I got to have pie with my dinner. I heart pie.

    Bad news

    Dusty Baker makes me itch.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  4. #108
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    It'll certainly give folks a handy excuse when they flop. Though I'm guessing Cueto's headed to the pen, where he'll be safe from Dusty.
    I'm drooling over the thought of Cueto in the pen.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  5. #109
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    In terms of handling SP pitch counts, going from Jerry Narron to Dusty Baker is the epitome of going from bad to worse.

    In terms of making lineups, Dusty Baker is on par, if not also worse than Jerry Narron.

    Dusty Baker would be, at best, a lateral move from Jerry Narron.

    Lateral moves are the last thing this team needs.

  6. #110
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    In terms of handling SP pitch counts, going from Jerry Narron to Dusty Baker is the epitome of going from bad to worse.

    In terms of making lineups, Dusty Baker is on par, if not also worse than Jerry Narron.

    Dusty Baker would be, at best, a lateral move from Jerry Narron.

    Lateral moves are the last thing this team needs.
    Seriously, from a marketing standpoint Dusty makes a lot of sense..."everybody" loves a big name heading their team...

    However, from the standpoint of where this team is (essentially about to undertake a youth movement as 5 members of their likely '08 lineup, 60% of their rotation and practically their whole pen wouldn't even be arb eligible) I neither understand why Dusty would want to come here nor why the Reds would think he's their guy...
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #111
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    Unless now the young guys are the trading chips for the old farts team that Dusty likes to have...



  8. #112
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    A Dusty Baker run team would be a boon to Castro fans, I bet.

    I would imagine that Baker has some serious man-love for Juan.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  9. #113
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    For those originally not in favor of bringing Pete back, how you feeling now??

  10. #114
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    A Dusty Baker run team would be a boon to Castro fans, I bet.

    I would imagine that Baker has some serious man-love for Juan.
    I didn't even want to think about that one.

    Thanks alot, Daddy.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  11. #115
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    News travels quick around here.. LOL! I have a STRONG feeling it's going to be Dusty barring a Major Wally Backman episode. I heard from a few folks that Fay has been on the radio and making comments to other media sources that Dusty is a done deal and they will announce when MLB lets them.

    I like the idea myself. I know he gets tagged a lot for ruining some arms but I don't completely buy into that. Hopefully Dick Pole can reign him in if it does become a problem.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  12. #116
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    News travels quick around here.. LOL! I have a STRONG feeling it's going to be Dusty barring a Major Wally Backman episode. I heard from a few folks that Fay has been on the radio and making comments to other media sources that Dusty is a done deal and they will announce when MLB lets them.

    I like the idea myself. I know he gets tagged a lot for ruining some arms but I don't completely buy into that. Hopefully Dick Pole can reign him in if it does become a problem.
    Well, let's move past the pitching issue and discuss his Joe Morgan like understand of any analytical concepts. This is going to be a really rough off-season if it starts this way...

    This would be a clear sign that we have management not interested in joining the 21st century of business practice. I know fandom is somewhat arbitrary based on where you grow up and what team you first root for. I've maintained my fandom despite moving away from Ohio at age 8. But this might be the straw that breaks my fandom's back.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #117
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    News travels quick around here.. LOL! I have a STRONG feeling it's going to be Dusty barring a Major Wally Backman episode. I heard from a few folks that Fay has been on the radio and making comments to other media sources that Dusty is a done deal and they will announce when MLB lets them.

    I like the idea myself. I know he gets tagged a lot for ruining some arms but I don't completely buy into that. Hopefully Dick Pole can reign him in if it does become a problem.
    I hope John Fay gets wrong on this so bad, he'll have to leave town.

    I don't get a guy who builds a nice house in Sacramento, CA thinking that he has to have a managerial job in Cincinnati.

    If there's good news, Baker likes the mashers. This'll probably get Dunn's option picked up.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  14. #118
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Well, let's move past the pitching issue and discuss his Joe Morgan like understand of any analytical concepts. This is going to be a really rough off-season if it starts this way...

    This would be a clear sign that we have management not interested in joining the 21st century of business practice. I know fandom is somewhat arbitrary based on where you grow up and what team you first root for. I've maintained my fandom despite moving away from Ohio at age 8. But this might be the straw that breaks my fandom's back.
    There have been worse managers in Cincinnati history and a lot of us around here worry more about the "Cincinnati" on the chest, than the guy who signs the lineup card. Maybe he'll channel his inner Pat Moran or Bill McKechnie.

    I feel for the older Reds fan who jeered this guy while wearing Dodger Blue in the '70's. Now they'll have to like him.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  15. #119
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    What in the hell have I did to the Reds to deserve this constant torture?

  16. #120
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search update(s) Could it be Dusty?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFan View Post
    :runawaycr:all_cohol
    Just when you thought it could not get worse.....
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."


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