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Thread: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

  1. #391
    On the brink of disaster acredsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Wow, you can really tell it's football season, whats with all the football references? Anyway, as a fan, this worries me. having said that, my love of the team is just that, for the team. I don't have to be a fan of the management or ownership to be a fan, this game is bigger than any of that, and my favorite team will be around for longer than any one human will run the team. I love this country, but I don't agree with the politicians that run it most of the time. I still follow and respect the fact that they are the leaders. Same goes for the Reds. We've endured Jimbo, Miley, Narron, Boone, and many many more people who were far from satisfactory, but I didn't lose my love for the reds. Hey, faces change and if Dusty fails then he will be gone with time, one thing that won't be gone as long as I have a say in it is my support of the Reds.

    Also, I realize that I am not the one who made all the money to buy the team, and I don't have a position such as GM. There are reasons for that... Maybe I will be one of those some day, not likely, but whatever. Maybe I don't have a job as a GM because I don't have the "right connections" or maybe I just can't do that job. More likely it is because I am choosing a different career path. Anyway my point is, at some point you just have to come to the realization that even thought it may be simple from our point of view, we really don't know all the things that go into these decisions. If you want to have a say in it, then start building your resume and become a baseball executive, but until you do that you just have to go with it. If you are a fair weather fan then fine, it doesn't bug me, but man, people are acting like the world is ending when in 3 years we will have started a new chapter or we will be on top of the baseball world. Some people take the short term, pessimistic view but I will stick to my optimistic views and realize that if this turns into a nightmare it will be over soon in the big scheme of things.
    "I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual." -- House

    "You guys are still thinking like doctors when you should be thinking like plumbers. Come on, I wanna see some butt crack." -- House

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  3. #392
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    As a Chicagoan, I don't look forward to the incoming ridicule...
    At least they'll recognize the Reds exist for the first time in a long time.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  4. #393
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    But the hyperbole on this thread is worse. The Reds have hired their best manager since Davey Johnson. Baker has a .527 career winning percentage.
    It's much easier to win when you have this in your lineup:
    Code:
    BARRY BONDS
    
    1993-2002
    
    YEAR TEAM         AGE G    AB    R    H    2B  3B  HR   HR%   RBI  BB   SO   SB   CS  AVG   SLG  OBA   OPS
    1993 Giants       28  159   539  129  181  38   4  46   8.53  123  126   79   29  12  .336  .677  .458 1.136 
    1994 Giants       29  112   391   89  122  18   1  37   9.46   81   74   43   29   9  .312  .647  .426 1.073 
    1995 Giants       30  144   506  109  149  30   7  33   6.52  104  120   83   31  10  .294  .577  .431 1.009 
    1996 Giants       31  158   517  122  159  27   3  42   8.12  129  151   76   40   7  .308  .615  .461 1.076 
    1997 Giants       32  159   532  123  155  26   5  40   7.52  101  145   87   37   8  .291  .585  .446 1.031 
    1998 Giants       33  156   552  120  167  44   7  37   6.70  122  130   92   28  12  .303  .609  .438 1.047 
    1999 Giants       34  102   355   91   93  20   2  34   9.58   83   73   62   15   2  .262  .617  .389 1.006 
    2000 Giants       35  143   480  129  147  28   4  49  10.21  106  117   77   11   3  .306  .688  .440 1.127 
    2001 Giants       36  153   476  129  156  32   2  73  15.34  137  177   93   13   3  .328  .863  .515 1.379 
    2002 Giants       37  143   403  117  149  31   2  46  11.41  110  198   47    9   2  .370  .799  .582 1.381 
         TOTALS          1429  4751 1158 1478 294  37 437   9.20 1096 1311  739  242  68  .311  .664  .461 1.126 
         LG AVERAGE            4473  633 1211 232  28 139   3.10  598  459  812   98  44  .271  .428  .342  .770 
         POS AVERAGE           4503  689 1229 241  30 177   3.92  668  517  874  113  49  .273  .458  .350  .808 
    
    YEAR TEAM          RC   RCAA  RCAP OWP   RC/G   TB   EBH  ISO   SEC  BPA  IBB HBP SAC  SF GIDP OUTS  PA   POS
    1993 Giants        172  108   99  .856  11.97  365   88  .341  .629  .740  43   2   0   7  11   388   674  LF
    1994 Giants        115   62   57  .799  10.93  253   56  .335  .598  .738  18   6   0   3   3   284   474  LF
    1995 Giants        133   66   59  .772   9.38  292   70  .283  .581  .671  22   5   0   4  12   383   635  LF
    1996 Giants        162   90   80  .813  11.45  318   72  .308  .677  .729  30   1   0   6  11   382   675  LF
    1997 Giants        151   77   76  .782  10.12  311   71  .293  .635  .696  34   8   0   5  13   403   690  LF
    1998 Giants        152   77   77  .779   9.79  336   88  .306  .592  .682  29   8   1   6  15   419   697  LF
    1999 Giants         91   40   34  .739   9.00  219   56  .355  .603  .696   9   3   0   3   6   273   434  LF
    2000 Giants        154   88   83  .821  11.91  330   81  .381  .648  .745  22   3   0   7   6   349   607  LF
    2001 Giants        228  169  153  .922  18.65  411  107  .536  .935  .907  35   9   0   2   5   330   664  LF
    2002 Giants        206  161  150  .942  21.23  322   79  .429  .943  .869  68   9   0   2   4   262   612  LF
         TOTALS       1564  938  868  .840  12.16 3157  768  .353  .680  .748 310  54   1  45  86  3473  6162 
         LG AVERAGE    665    0    0  .500   5.17 1915  398  .157  .282  .473  43  43  29  39 100  3473  5043 
         POS AVERAGE   740   74    0  .543   5.76 2060  448  .185  .325  .507  53  40  16  39  94  3473  5116
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  5. #394
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    At least they'll recognize the Reds exist for the first time in a long time.
    And we don't have listen to Dusty on baseball tonight. Oh wait... I stopped watching BBTN a long time ago...

    I just want to get Baker and Morgan in the same room. Between their egos and complete lack of understanding on how baseball actually works, there could be some real fireworks. Maybe they'd think they were looking in a mirror and just get lost gazing in to each other's eyes.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  6. #395
    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Here's the problem with them "going for it", M2.

    The Reds are throwing a Hail Mary and don't realize they're down 14, it's the middle of the 2nd quarter, and it's 3rd and 1 from their own 17.
    Agreed, it's about the context of going for it. To take your analogy a step further: They're down 14 deep in their own territory, but they've just cut the lead in half by establishing their ground game, and are now opting to proceed to the hail mary route in short yardage situations. Such a move potentially negates every ounce of positive momentum gained since the jettison of Narron, and compounds it by reversing course and setting a new tack just as you're starting to make the first forward progress the franchise has seen in years.

    Even if you don't think the reds were on the right track, or that they had made any strides in the past months, or that this signals a reversal of direction... even then, Dusty is a terrible fit for our personnel, and embodies every outdated and debunked managerial and organizational philosophy that this franchise should be moving away from like the plague. It only makes sense to me in the context of a visionless 'win now' owner who's out of his depths, hoping that making bold, sweeping gestures equals progress.

    Sometimes it's better to tread water than it is to swim back in the direction of the wreckage that's taking everything under with it.

  7. #396
    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    At least they'll recognize the Reds exist for the first time in a long time.
    Which is about as vapid a concept as the value of Lou bringing recognition to Tampa Bay. This is an empty gesture towards winning from an owner who doesn't know the first thing about sound baseball strategy, but it might get highlights of our losses bumped into the first segment of Baseball Tonight.

  8. #397
    Member top6's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    As others have said, I think I'm done with the Reds. This is the worst possible move they could have made. I really think that if Wayne and Cast had held a press conference and said, "to save money, we are not going to have a manager this year, and we are just going to have Scott Hatteberg be the manager," in all seriousness, that would have been a better move.

    Our team just hired someone who thinks walks clog up the bases, and who thinks the Yankees teams of the 1990s didn't care about on base percentage. Just think about that. Seriously, that's totally indefensible.

    I don't think I can spend money and support people who are this dumb. It's even worse than Mike Brown, in a way, because Mike Brown just cares about money, not winning. He's not dumb. He's a cheap sob, but if he could choose between two coaches who cost the same amount of money, all other things being equal he would take the coach who had the best chance to win. Cast, on the other hand, just spent far more money on a coach who gives them less chance to win. That's dumber than anything Mike Brown ever did.

    I guess I'm just dragging this post on because it's probably the last think I'll post about the Reds for a while. I haven't followed them as much in recent years, but I have always cared. But I'm definitely done for now. Hopefully they'll trade Dunn and I can just root for whatever team he goes to. I guess I'll pull for the As next year if that doesn't happen - I'd like to see Billy Beane win one.

    Anyway, good bye Reds, for now.

  9. #398
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Absolutely nowhere have you seen me say that I think this is going to work. I don't. Chances are it will be a spectacular and painful failure.

    But even if the show sucks, at least they've got amps turned up to 11. It beats the unplugged sets we've endured in the 21st century.

    I hear Cincinnati wants to party.
    Well I guess tanking with flair certainly is more exciting than tanking with boredom.

    Then again, they're both still tanking anyway so the bottom line doesn't change.

    Dusty Baker himself is actually less than half the reason why I can't stand this move. The larger reason is this move is a massive symbol of what the Reds organization really is. It's becoming clear to me that there's no forward thinking, there's no innovation, there's no positive visionary action.

    This is precisely the type of move I'd expect from an organization that lives in the past, and if there's any one organization (and fanbase) that lives in the past in big league baseball today, it's the Cincinnati Reds.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  10. #399
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcclain19 View Post
    Per Castellini - the Reds are close - I think he honestly thinks this is the last piece the Reds need. I honestly would not be shocked if the Reds did little in the offseason due to this ridiculous optimism.
    If so then Bob is a looney, could he really think that this group of players just needs the right coach and they will suddenly be a competitive bunch?
    Go Gators!

  11. #400
    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    But the hyperbole on this thread is worse. The Reds have hired their best manager since Davey Johnson. Baker has a .527 career winning percentage.
    I would hope so. Being blessed with a Top 3-5 Offense in every year between 1997-2002 with San Francisco, at the hands of multiple MVP candidates, and the NL's player of the decade, tends to help one's winning%.

  12. #401
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Which is about as vapid a concept as the value of Lou bringing recognition to Tampa Bay. This is an empty gesture towards winning from an owner who doesn't know the first thing about sound baseball strategy, but it might get highlights of our losses bumped into the first segment of Baseball Tonight.
    I didn't say that's why the Reds hired him, just that Cubs fans will pay some attention the Reds as a byproduct of the move. I'm sure the Reds think this is really going to work, that good baseball will ensue.

    I'm going to want to see who's on the team that takes the field in 2008 before I make any definitive pronouncements on that matter, but if pure old school can work then Baker's a good choice. He's no Jerry Narron. I'm willing to allow for "so crazy it might work" in this case, which is something I haven't been willing to put on the table for most other moves this century.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792
    Dusty Baker himself is actually less than half the reason why I can't stand this move. The larger reason is this move is a massive symbol of what the Reds organization really is. It's becoming clear to me that there's no forward thinking, there's no innovation, there's no positive visionary action.

    This is precisely the type of move I'd expect from an organization that lives in the past, and if there's any one organization (and fanbase) that lives in the past in big league baseball today, it's the Cincinnati Reds.
    Didn't we already know that?
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  13. #402
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Didn't we already know that?
    Sure we did, but at some point it has to change. Whether it's now, five years from now, 10 years from now, or 50 years from now. Even the Kansas City Royals appear to at least be taking baby steps to positive progress.

    At some point the Reds have to take a turn for forward thinking, and until they do, they're likely to get their brains beat in by the teams willing to make that leap. Obviously continuing to get their brains beat in isn't any different than what we've seen for the past seven years, but it gets to a point where enough is enough. Watching an organization consistently lose is bad enough, but watching an organization actively taking steps to try to continue losing is even worse.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  14. #403
    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    Well, say hello to the absolute cellar. At least I'll save $200 not having to buy MLB Extra Innings next year. What a disappointment.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

  15. #404
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    It's a terrible decision. Why are people acting surprised though? I had some hope with Krivsky until this though.

    I still can't believe the people ditching the Reds though. I'm not one to brag about my fanship, but you aren't much of a Reds fan if that thought ever crossed your mind, IMO.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  16. #405
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

    This is bad news.


    It is also par for the course.


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