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Thread: Johnny Cueto Winter League updates

  1. #46
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Johnny Cueto Winter League updates

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Likewise, it would also give him 5 times as many reps to hone that skill.
    The difference is in the pen, you can quickly assess the problem and then get back out on the field in the next day or three and put it to the test. It's more targeted learning.

    As a starter, if you're having a problem like that, you get beaten silly and then you have to wait five days to see how well you've corrected the problem. And if you haven't quite fixed it yet, then you get another beating and you've got to wait five more days.

    Of course that gets to the heart of one of my bugaboos about starting pitcher callups. If the kid has to do that kind of basic work (e.g. learning to put a pitch where it needs to be), then he's got no business starting games in the majors. Every problem gets magnified when you're a starter. You can't hide. Sooner or later, whatever it is you're doing wrong will catch up to you.

    I allow more leeway in the bullpen because the manager can yank that kid on a moment's notice if he doesn't like what he sees. It's certainly a good place to do your initial tinkering, to get a feel for what works against MLB hitters so that you don't get thrust into that punish-and-wait cycle. Even a dozen bullpen outings can tighten up a young pitcher's offerings so that when he takes the mound for a start he's better equipped for it.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  3. #47
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Johnny Cueto Winter League updates

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    That's how the Orioles brought 'em along exactly that way for a long time. Doyle Alexander, Mike Garland, Mike Flanagan, Scott McGregor, Dennis Martinez, Mike Boddicker and Storm Davis all started off in the majors in the pen. Earl Weaver used to ease them into the rotation. It worked.
    Not when they are so young and haven't completed a season with a starters workload. They tried it with Jim Palmer too and the lesson that I see was that he spent his age 19 season as a spot starter/long man getting 6 starts in 27 appearances and throwing 92 innings. The next year he went into the rotation, made 30 starts and threw 208 Innings. The following 2 years were basically lost seasons due to arm shoulder and back problems with 9 starts and 49 innings in the first one and the rest of the time not on the roster, or throwing a few innings in the minors. The following season consisted of 37 minor league innings. Palmer and the Orioles were lucky he was able to come back and if that had happened in this era, he would have spent those 2 years on the major league DL accruing service time toward free agency. The Orioles would have gotten a couple of good seasons out of him and then he would have been gone.

    Storm Davis threw 187 innings in 1981 in the minors and had already worked himself up to a starters load before the bullpen stint in the big leagues. Dennis Martinez threw 207 innings the season prior to it being tried with him. Scott McGregor had thrown 176 and was age 23. Wayne Garland had thrown 180 and was 23. Mike Flanagan was 24 before it was tried on him. Mike Boddicker was basically a starter from the get go except for a couple of cups of coffee.

    I actually think its a good idea to break a kid in by a stint in the pen but I don't generally like it when the kid is less than age 23 (or more conservativley 25) or hasn't worked his way up to a starters load in the minors prior to the transition. What happend and was narrowly missed with Palmer is too much risk these days. In Cueto's case his Winter Ball stint has actually put him at about 200 innings this year and if it doesn't kill him, it may make it an ok gamble. I would not try a bullpen stint with Bailey this season or even next. He needs to work his innings back up to a starter's load first.
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  4. #48
    REDSBROWNSBUCKEYES
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    Re: Johnny Cueto Winter League updates

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Likewise, it would also give him 5 times as many reps to hone that skill.
    That it would, also a guy with "command issues" could spell nothing but Rick White type explosions in the Reds bullpen. Starting allows a pitcher to get settled in, and get into a groove. If this guy truely does have some command issues, comming into the game with a couple guys on base, needing to throw strikes to save a ball game is not going to help him or this club get to where they need to be.

  5. #49
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    Re: Johnny Cueto Winter League updates

    On the one hand, you have to love that he just keeps pitching so well. But on the other hand, putting those inning on him can't be good.

  6. #50
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Johnny Cueto Winter League updates

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I actually think its a good idea to break a kid in by a stint in the pen but I don't generally like it when the kid is less than age 23 (or more conservativley 25) or hasn't worked his way up to a starters load in the minors prior to the transition. What happend and was narrowly missed with Palmer is too much risk these days. In Cueto's case his Winter Ball stint has actually put him at about 200 innings this year and if it doesn't kill him, it may make it an ok gamble. I would not try a bullpen stint with Bailey this season or even next. He needs to work his innings back up to a starter's load first.
    Very good point, first you need a pitcher to build himself up as a starter through the minors before you need to think about how to transition him in the majors. I'm with on Bailey's lack of innings being a major concern.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


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