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Thread: Should the Reds be in the AL?

  1. #1
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Should the Reds be in the AL?

    I've been kicking this around in my head for awhile now and figured I'd toss it out there for public evisceration.

    For the record, my gut reaction to the question "Should the Reds be in the AL?" is "Hell no."

    The Reds have been in the NL since 1890 and they were one of the eight clubs that formed the core of the NL after the AL came along. The team's entire heritage is wrapped up with the NL and the DH is a sinful practice that deserve rebuking.

    And then I asked myself a second question - So what?

    They've got books and museums for anyone who cares about the team history. If the AL would be a materially better home for the Reds for the next 30 years, then people in the future can lump the league switch in with other forward thinking Reds moves like night baseball.

    I can see two major reasons why the AL might make more sense for the Reds: opponents and ballpark.

    Currently we're 14 seasons into the NL Central and the Reds still don't have a rival. Reds fans may not like the Cubs or Cardinals, but those are two one-way streets. Part of that is because the Reds have spent 10 of those seasons posing no danger. Then again, even when they played well and had some tense moments with their most consistent competitor (the Astros), no rivalry emerged from it. The division revolves around the Cubs-Cardinals rivalry and everything else is a secondary storyline.

    The AL Central has no such center of gravity. The Indians, Tigers, White Sox and Twins (nee Senators) have plenty of history between them, but there isn't a dominant pairing in the bunch.

    Also, if you look at a map, the Reds two most natural geographical rivals are the Indians and Tigers. The annual home-home Battle of Ohio makes for popular baseball, but there's never been anything mutual at stake for both teams. That would change in a major way with the Reds in the same division.

    Fans surely could come to dislike the big money team from the south side of Chicago as much as they do the big money team from the north side of Chicago. Plus, the Cubs are a pretty decrepit titan. Beating them is more often a given than an accomplishment. And if you like to tilt at windmills, there'd be 12-14 games a year against the Yankees and Red Sox. Talk about hot tickets.

    If the Reds moved to the AL - swapping with either the Royals, Rangers or Tampa Bay - the Pirates could possibly move to the NL East, where they're a much better fit.

    And then you get to the biggest reason why the AL might make sense for the Reds, the GAB.

    They built it and it will be home for a long time to come. It's a bandbox and it's the sort of place where you could take advantage of a quality DH. Much as the DH disgusts the purist in me, the Reds built a park for DH baseball. Had the Reds been in the AL the past decade it would have vastly improved the return on investment for Ken Griffey Jr. and an AL residence would favorably alter the value proposition for offering Adam Dunn a multi-year extension.

    So, acknowledging that it's probably never going to happen and that it would offend my delicate sensibilities if it did, yes the Reds should be in the AL.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    AL ball is completely unwatchable, IMO. It's like mid-season NBA games.

  4. #3
    Something clever pahster's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    The DH doesn't bother me at all. I don't particularly enjoy watching pitchers "hit." Though I wouldn't at all mind changing leagues, I can't see it coming to pass because of the Reds' long history in the NL.

  5. #4
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    I don't see the park as a compelling reason for a DH. If anything, I would want my park to balance my team. We have a park which encourages power hitting from players who otherwise might not hit for power. Having a DH doesn't really add anything.

    DH aside, I don't have a strong preference and find the historical argument more compelling than any other.

    As for the rivalry business, rivalries are born, not made. They come out of competition -- for titles, for players, for fans, for money, for hearts. The Reds closest geographic rival is Pittsburgh, not Detroit or Cleveland. Even conceptually, they make good rivals. Similar blue collar towns on the Ohio River. The Reds and Pirates would have been perfect rivals in the 70's battling for division championships save for the fact the Reds were in the West due to the historical expansion pattern of the game.

    If anybody should be moved, it should be the Brewers who have both the Geographic and historical backing to be in the AL Central. Milwaukee and Chicago simply don't share fanbases, largely in part to the drastically different nature of the cities themselves. Meanwhile, the Twins have no natural rival.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  6. #5
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    Can we be in a division that consists of Tampa Bay, Kansas City, Baltimore, and Texas?
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


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  7. #6
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    Do you need geography to make a great rivalry?

    Ask 90% of the people on this board who the Reds greatest rival is and i bet they say the Dodgers. And that was because of the slugfests those teams had when the lionshare of us were in our formative years (insert RFS is old joke here).
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
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  8. #7
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    Can we be in a division that consists of Tampa Bay, Kansas City, Baltimore, and Texas?
    yes if the divisions are run on the english football relegation method.

  9. #8
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    Do you need geography to make a great rivalry?

    Ask 90% of the people on this board who the Reds greatest rival is and i bet they say the Dodgers. And that was because of the slugfests those teams had when the lionshare of us were in our formative years (insert RFS is old joke here).
    Reasonable travelling distance helps.

    Note where the Reds-Dodgers rivalry is these days - nowhere. You could have a temporary rivalry with Timbuktu if both teams were vying for the same title, but Reds and Indians fans are intermingled throughout Ohio. That's the basis for the kind of sustained rivalry the Reds have never had.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  10. #9
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    Well how about this with no interleague play

    Code:
    AL East                               NL East
    Boston                                Baltimore
    NY Y                                  Washington
    NY M                                  Atlanta  
    Toronto                               Florida
    Philadelphia                          Tampa Bay
    
    AL Central                            NL Central
    Cubs                                  Reds
    White Sox                             Indians
    Milwaukee                             Detroit
    Twins                                 Pittsburgh
                                               
    AL California                          NL Rest
    Angels                              St. Louis
    Dodgers                               KC
    Padres                                Texas
    Oakland                               Houston
    Giants                                Arizona
                                          Colorado
    Last edited by klw; 10-24-2007 at 06:52 PM.

  11. #10
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Reasonable travelling distance helps.

    Note where the Reds-Dodgers rivalry is these days - nowhere. You could have a temporary rivalry with Timbuktu if both teams were vying for the same title, but Reds and Indians fans are intermingled throughout Ohio. That's the basis for the kind of sustained rivalry the Reds have never had.
    Just curious, what function does geography serve in rivalry? The more frequent presence of the other fans at your park? Intersecting media markets leading to easier access to information about the other club?

    Army and Navy aren't that close. Dallas and Washington DC are pretty far away. Dallas is pretty far from San Fran too. Miami and New York aren't too close. LA and Boston -- not so much. Columbus is as close to Bloomington as Ann Arbor.

    Geography helps -- but mainly in that it means they're more likely to play each other in the first place and that there's natural co-mingling of fan bases. Being in constant competition is rule #1.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #11
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Well how about this with no interleague play

    Code:
    AL East                               NL East
    Boston                                Baltimore
    NY Y                                  Washington
    NY M                                  Atlanta  
    Toronto                               Florida
    Philadelphia                          Tampa Bay
    
    AL Central                            NL Central
    Cubs                                  Reds
    White Sox                             Indians
    Milwaukee                             Detroit
    Twins                                 Pittsburgh
                                               
    AL California                          NL Rest
    Angels                              St. Louis
    Dodgers                               KC
    Padres                                Texas
    Oakland                               Houston
    Giants                                Arizona
                                          Colorado
    so you'd eliminate the Mariners?

  13. #12
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guacarock View Post
    so you'd eliminate the Mariners?
    Yes I would just to end those annoying JR back to Seattle rumors.

    Darn where to put them. They can't be in the AL or else it is two leagues of 15. I think I need to rework the NL Rest.

  14. #13
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    Just put StL in the AL Central and the Mariners in the AL West. 16 in the AL, 14 in the NL.

    Or if you're really hung up about StL and KC, move them both the AL Central and put Seattle in the NL Rest. That one

    Or put Seattle in the AL West and StL and KC in the AL Central, while moving SD to the NL Southwest. That's probably what I'd do.

    Code:
    AL				 NL
    
    Northeast                        East
    Boston                           Baltimore
    NY Y                             Washington
    NY M                             Atlanta  
    Toronto                          Florida
    Philadelphia                     Tampa Bay
    
    Corn-Fed                         Rust-Belt
    Cubs                             Reds
    White Sox                        Indians
    Milwaukee                        Detroit
    Twins                            Pittsburgh
    St. Louis
    KC
    
    West Coast			 South
    Angels                           Colorado
    Mariners                         Arizona
    Dodgers                          San Diego
    Oakland                          Texas
    Giants                           Houston
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 10-24-2007 at 07:11 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  15. #14
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    there maybe this works

    Code:
    AL East                               NL East
    Boston                                Baltimore
    NY Y                                  Washington
    NY M                                  Atlanta  
    Toronto                               Florida
    Philadelphia                          Tampa Bay
    
    AL Central                            NL Central
    Cubs                                  Reds
    White Sox                             Indians
    Milwaukee                             Detroit
    Twins                                 Pittsburgh
    St. Louis
    KC
    
    AL West                               NL West
    Seattle                               Angels 
    Colorado                              Dodgers  
    Texas                                 Padres   
    Houston                               Oakland 
    Arizona                               Giants
    I do like the idea of KC and ST. Louis together and was hoping to set them up with the Texas teams. Oops gotta go.
    Last edited by klw; 10-24-2007 at 07:11 PM. Reason: To make things worse

  16. #15
    Member chicoruiz's Avatar
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    Re: Should the Reds be in the AL?

    You'd be marked for death on Toronto..of course you could move to Atlanta, where you'd have many friends...
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra


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