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Thread: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

  1. #16
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    I don't think he has a chance to start for the Reds due to the current guys on the Reds, but I think he could start on some teams in baseball as a CFer and be a positive contributor.

    And yes, 25 year olds with no major league experience can become regulars.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I don't think he has a chance to start for the Reds due to the current guys on the Reds, but I think he could start on some teams in baseball as a CFer and be a positive contributor.
    We're in absolute agreement here.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    And yes, 25 year olds with no major league experience can become regulars.
    And not so much here. Sure it's possible that somebody like Chris Sabo has the planets align and the organization hands him a clear shot at a starting job.

    ....Next year will be Chris Dickerson's age 26 season.I would be shocked if in the last 10 years there are more than 10 guys who had not seen a major league plate appearance by that season and went on to have two years of 500 plate appearances. Other than Sabo and he doesn't fi the last 10 years clause, I can't think of anybody off the top of my head.

    I'm really not trying to be a jerk about it here. Guys like this don't get chances.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  4. #18
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    I don't think you are being a jerk about it, I just think we are disagreeing on it.
    Jack Cust had cups of coffee here and there, but never more than 75 ABs in a season until this year. At age 28 he had over 500 plate appearances. Termel Sledge at age 27 got his first playing time and got 450 plate appearances. Brady Clark comes to mind as well.

  5. #19
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    And not so much here. Sure it's possible that somebody like Chris Sabo has the planets align and the organization hands him a clear shot at a starting job.

    ....Next year will be Chris Dickerson's age 26 season.I would be shocked if in the last 10 years there are more than 10 guys who had not seen a major league plate appearance by that season and went on to have two years of 500 plate appearances. Other than Sabo and he doesn't fi the last 10 years clause, I can't think of anybody off the top of my head.

    I'm really not trying to be a jerk about it here. Guys like this don't get chances.
    Junior Spivey and Brady Clark are two off the top of my head.

    Travis Hafner, Lyle Overbay, and Freel are pretty close--they *combined* for fewer than 100 PAs prior to their age 26 seasons.

    So while you are technically correct, that very few players with zero ABs before 26 emerge, there are still quite a few excellent late bloomers. . .

    Dickerson isn't likely to be one of them.

  6. #20
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    Baker has a history of defensive oriented center fielders. It will be hard for him to achieve that with the Reds since they have a glut of corner outfielders, some of whom, like Hammy, are ok at center. So it is likely his starting CFer next year will be good, but not great, at that position.

    Unless Dusty changes this mix by shipping out outfielders and acquiring a CF, I can see him keeping Dickerson as a late inning replacement. At least that way Dusty will be able to pull Hamilton (or Dunn or even Griff) in the late innings, and insert the fly catching Dickerson.

    Of course, these late inning changes will be fuel for hundreds of RedsZone posts next summer.

  7. #21
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    On a team with Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey getting two of the starting spots, the Reds could do worse than to have a speedy plus defender as a back-up. The fact that he's a big guy with some power and knows how to take a walk helps as well.

    If he's to make it though, the Reds would realistically need to trade one of the big 4 OF (Dunn, Griffey, Hamilton, Bruce) and one of the little two (Hopper, Freel).
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  8. #22
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    On a team with Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey getting two of the starting spots, the Reds could do worse than to have a speedy plus defender as a back-up. The fact that he's a big guy with some power and knows how to take a walk helps as well.

    If he's to make it though, the Reds would realistically need to trade one of the big 4 OF (Dunn, Griffey, Hamilton, Bruce) and one of the little two (Hopper, Freel).
    No problem. Trade Jr to one of the few teams he will go to and put Bruce in CF ( with Hamilton in RF ).
    This upgrades the defense and sheds salary to spend on pitching
    ( Schilling, Wood, Japanese closer ).

    If Freel is healthy in spring training he could be dealt.
    Some team will suffer a late spring injury and a versatile healthy Freel will look good to them. That leaves Hopper and Dickerson as the 4th/5th outfielders.
    .

  9. #23
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    Jr. and Dunn are only guaranteed through 2008. Bruce will take one starting spot, but Dickerson could take the other in 2009 if he can have an outstanding year in AAA next year.

  10. #24
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    No problem. Trade Jr to one of the few teams he will go to and put Bruce in CF ( with Hamilton in RF ).
    This upgrades the defense and sheds salary to spend on pitching
    ( Schilling, Wood, Japanese closer ).

    If Freel is healthy in spring training he could be dealt.
    Some team will suffer a late spring injury and a versatile healthy Freel will look good to them. That leaves Hopper and Dickerson as the 4th/5th outfielders.
    I'd like to see Griffey and Freel subtracted as well. But the Reds may need to keep them and trade some one like Hamilton if they really want to go after pitching of the caliber needed. Griffey might bring marginal prospects and salary relief. Freel may not even bring that much.

    The time to deal Freel may have been last spring when teams were looking for lead-off types for CF and Hamilton was having a coming out party in Sarasota. Last off-season Juan Pierre was given unreal money, Gary Matthews was signed as a centerpiece player, Willy Tavaras was dealt and at least two teams (The Marlins and the Cubs) went into the season without finding anyone while settling for players they didn't necessarily want in the role. The market for guys like Freel seemed like it was pretty hot. Maybe with so many starting CF being free agents (Jones, Hunter, Rowand, Cameron, Patterson) some team will be left with a hole and be willing to give Freel a try. Expectations for a decent pen arm should be dropped though. At this point the Reds would be lucky to get some one to take his contract for a PTBNL. Maybe they should just keep him, hope for a comeback to 2005 or 2006 levels of some sort and use the roster flexability he provides to allow the team to trade a more valuable guy that can actually bring back a pitcher who is better than the pack of question marks on hand.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  11. #25
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    dfs mentioned one of the more important facts about Dickerson--he hits left-handed. With Dunn, Hamilton, and Griffey on the team, right now, he probably wouldn't help the team as much as Norris Hopper, Ryan Freel, Jeff Keppinger, etc.

    I wish him the best, but I wouldn't have a problem with him spending most of '08 in AAA, getting called up when there's an injury.

  12. #26
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    dfs mentioned one of the more important facts about Dickerson--he hits left-handed. With Dunn, Hamilton, and Griffey on the team, right now, he probably wouldn't help the team as much as Norris Hopper, Ryan Freel, Jeff Keppinger, etc.

    I wish him the best, but I wouldn't have a problem with him spending most of '08 in AAA, getting called up when there's an injury.

    The Reds starting team is overly lefthanded; I'd like that to change. But the bench needs a combo of both lefties and righties. You can't have an all right handed bench; you need lefties to pinch hit against right handed relievers in the late innings.

  13. #27
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The Reds starting team is overly lefthanded; I'd like that to change. But the bench needs a combo of both lefties and righties. You can't have an all right handed bench; you need lefties to pinch hit against right handed relievers in the late innings.


    I'd like a bench for 2008 of Hat (L), Cantu, Kep, Hopper, Dickerson (L) & Ross ( with the Reds letting Javy go and getting a catcher better than Ross to be the starter ).
    .

  14. #28
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    Guys like Dickerson are nice to have if you continue to move them through you system. People with Dickerson's skill set should be able to replace the Ryan Freels of the world without handing out contract extentions. 4th and 5th outfielders are really dime a dozen type players. I think Dickerson's speed is really the only aspect that sets him apart for your 5th outfielder and may get him a bench position on a ML team.

  15. #29
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Guys like Dickerson are nice to have if you continue to move them through you system. People with Dickerson's skill set should be able to replace the Ryan Freels of the world without handing out contract extentions. 4th and 5th outfielders are really dime a dozen type players. I think Dickerson's speed is really the only aspect that sets him apart for your 5th outfielder and may get him a bench position on a ML team.
    I think his defense sets him apart from most as well. While most back up outfielders are good fielders, Dickerson is at a very high level in CF, and that is very valuable.

  16. #30
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?

    I'd take Dickerson over Ellison or Coats.
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