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Thread: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

  1. #31
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    The World Series is baseball's signature event. It should be quite an attraction. The NFL used to move its Sunday night game to Thursday to accomodate the series. If Baseball claimed its territory as a national game that all could see (including kids) on the week-end with a 6:30 PM start, people would watch and they may even lay a foundation for the future.

    This year, I saw few of the games and the story that got me a little excited for post sesason play was put on hold for three All Star breaks worth of off days. Meanwhile the AL series was taking days off on days where there wasn't even a need for a travel day.

    The Play-offs could have been compacted with the Series playing Games 1 and 2 at 6:30 PM on a Saturday and Sunday, three games during the week starting at 8 or even 8:30 and Games 6 and 7 if need be on the following week-end also starting at 6:30. Instead Baseball chose to duck the main stage and become a niche event that really wasn't available to the entire nation on any day. I'm sure this schedule maximized Baseball's short term profits, but it had the effect of making its prime event something less than a prime event IMO. I wonder what that will do to the next TV contract.

    But wouldn't you agree that something is less of an event if it happens at least 4 times and possibly 7 rather than once? You can miss the first 3 games of the World Series and still see the champion crowned. You miss the Super Bowl and you have to wait another year.

    On Sundays you still have NFL games going on at 7:00 - on the same channel they are showing the World Series, nonetheless.

    As I said earler, these aren't typical games unless you watch the Red Sox all the time.

    Fans say they love the Wild Card. But when you added that, you lengthened the playoffs by a week. There's talk of making the first round of the playoffs best of 7. Extra off days or not - and I agree that the off day between game 4 and 5 of the ALCS was ridiculous - that's going to stretch the post season out till November. So what do people love more, the Wild Card or the extra round of playoffs?

    Outside of that extra day off, I'm not sure how they could have squeezed in two rounds of the playoffs any sooner than they did. I'm all for making the LCS go back to 5 games. I think it would be a lot more dramatic and more of an - wait for it - event.
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  3. #32
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    TV doesn't care about building tomorrow's market, they just care about today.

    And I imagine the kids of today will be in sports bars or at their buddies houses when they are of age and the ballgame will be on TV. Are they baseball fans? Dunno. Is the game on? Yes, and that's all MLB and TV cares about.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  4. #33
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    But wouldn't you agree that something is less of an event if it happens at least 4 times and possibly 7 rather than once? You can miss the first 3 games of the World Series and still see the champion crowned. You miss the Super Bowl and you have to wait another year.

    On Sundays you still have NFL games going on at 7:00 - on the same channel they are showing the World Series, nonetheless.

    As I said earler, these aren't typical games unless you watch the Red Sox all the time.

    Fans say they love the Wild Card. But when you added that, you lengthened the playoffs by a week. There's talk of making the first round of the playoffs best of 7. Extra off days or not - and I agree that the off day between game 4 and 5 of the ALCS was ridiculous - that's going to stretch the post season out till November. So what do people love more, the Wild Card or the extra round of playoffs?

    Outside of that extra day off, I'm not sure how they could have squeezed in two rounds of the playoffs any sooner than they did. I'm all for making the LCS go back to 5 games. I think it would be a lot more dramatic and more of an - wait for it - event.
    They can cut the long lay-offs between rounds. Any reason that they needed so many days between the end of the ALCS and the start of the Series? Or the end of the season and the start of the Division series? The season ended on a Sunday and one series didn't start until Thursday.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  5. #34
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    But wouldn't you agree that something is less of an event if it happens at least 4 times and possibly 7 rather than once? You can miss the first 3 games of the World Series and still see the champion crowned. You miss the Super Bowl and you have to wait another year.

    Also, I'm not saying they'll ever get the ratings of the Super Bowl because your point is correct that the Super Bowl is a one day event. But the Super Bowl is proof that a 6:30 Start time can draw ratings nationally (maybe not to Super Bowl levels) and that 8:30 on the week-end isn't necessary. I agree that the west coast needs to be considered during the work week.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  6. #35
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    Chip, you keep saying that, but I personally do think that 8:30 is too late a start time no matter how long the games lasts. As I said in an earlier post, even 8:00 would make a big difference to me because it sets it up as a typical primetime event and cuts everything down to a half-hour earlier.

    7:30 seems pretty ideal in my opinion (yes, it sucks for the West Coast, but as I said before I don't see a real solution to that as 8:30 is tough for them anyway). It's close enough to real "prime time" but not abnormally late; it's still a kids-are-awake time. And from a ratings standpoint I think it might actually serve the network better: a casual viewer who flips on the TV at 8 pm is a lot more likely to stay tuned to a game that's in somewhat full swing than a bunch of annoying talking heads who are playing up a game that starts in half an hour. By the time that half an hour has gone by, the casual viewer has long since flipped to something else. 7:00 preshow, 7:30 game start. What's wrong with that?

    And then my grampa, who goes to bed around nine, can watch an hour an a half of the game instead of less than 30 minutes. He'd be more likely to watch more of a game he's been into for an hour and a half too.

    There's nothing wrong with an earlier starting time. But the networks and MLB have decided that sometime after 8:00 is the best starting time.

    Imagine a World Series game on a weeknight on the west coast starting at 4:30 local time. Especially in L.A. You think they show up late when the games start at 7 local time, think how Dodger Stadium would look when they start the game before people even get off work.

    I know the networks do a lot of dumb things but I really think that they maximize their audience - at least at the beginning of the game - by starting the games this late.

    I feel bad that your grandpa can't watch as much of the game as he would like to. A good granddaughter would tape the games for him so he could watch them at his leisure.

    Just to get off on a tangent here, every once in a while we talk about how they should bring back doubleheaders. One a month or more so the season wouldn't go on quite so long. But why in the world would a team expect its fans to sit through 6-8 hours of baseball if they can't even sit through a 3 and a half hour game in the comfort of their own home?
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  7. #36
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    They can cut the long lay-offs between rounds. Any reason that they needed so many days between the end of the ALCS and the start of the Series? Or the end of the season and the start of the Division series? The season ended on a Sunday and one series didn't start until Thursday.
    It was 2 days in each case. Both the regular season and the 7th game of the ALCS ended on Sunday and the 1st game of the playoffs and the World Series started on Wednesday. Hardly unreasonable.
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  8. #37
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Imagine a World Series game on a weeknight on the west coast starting at 4:30 local time. Especially in L.A. You think they show up late when the games start at 7 local time, think how Dodger Stadium would look when they start the game before people even get off work.
    Here is my impression of LA: no one's home before 7 or 7:30 anyway because of rush hour. Those who care about baseball prefer an earlier start time because they have TV in their offices anyway so at least can catch some of the games before they leave work. If the Dodgers were in the World Series, those who care would find some way to be there or watch it no matter what the time. This is somewhat tongue in cheek...but it is also my genuine experience. They are quite used to being behind in start times of things like this. They probably don't like it, but they have found ways to live with it. TiVo is a wonderful thing, and was probably invented in California.

    That's why I just don't think there's a solution to the time zone problem.

    As for the rest of it, I dunno. I'm staying up late to, in all likelihood, watch the Red Sox sweep the World Series, so all hope must not be lost yet.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  9. #38
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    It was 2 days in each case. Both the regular season and the 7th game of the ALCS ended on Sunday and the 1st game of the playoffs and the World Series started on Wednesday. Hardly unreasonable.
    Except one division series started on Thursday and if they cut it to Tuesday they would be able to use the flex time to make sure the World Series starts on Saturday. Same thing happened in the subsequent rounds.

    I'm not concerned that the series lasts into November as much as I think they could have gotten the last possible LCS game over with on Thursday and had Game one on Saturday to allow for a true national audience in games 1 and 2 where the tone of the series is usually set. There isn't need for 2 days off in a row. Teams that end-up in a rare one game play-off may be inconvenienced by having to travel and play a game the next day, but that happens all the time during the season and is the price they pay for not winning outright IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  10. #39
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Except one division series started on Thursday and if they cut it to Tuesday they would be able to use the flex time to make sure the World Series starts on Saturday. Same thing happened in the subsequent rounds.
    But you also have to account for one game playoffs. Multiple one game playoffs, if need be.

    One of the big complaints about the 1st round this year was the late starting times for the Angels and Rockies and Diamondback games. Since TBS was showing all the games in order to show them all, they had to stagger them out through the day and have off days in the middle of the series. Either that or not show them at all or have them on against each other on another network. Tell me how you work a schedule out where you are showing all the games in 4 different series in the afternoon or in prime time without having them go against each other without some off days where they aren't usually supposed to be.
    Last edited by Chip R; 10-28-2007 at 11:54 PM.
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  11. #40
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    But you also have to account for one game playoffs. Multiple one game playoffs, if need be.

    One of the big complaints about the 1st round this year was the late starting times for the Angels and Rockies and Diamondback games. Since TBS was showing all the games in order to show them all, they had to stagger them out through the day and have off days in the middle of the series. Either that or not show them at all or have them on against each other on another network. Tell me how you work a schedule out where you are showing all the games in 4 different series in the afternoon or in prime time without having them go against each other without some off days where they aren't usually supposed to be.
    Go all day like the NCAA tourney does. Noon, 3, 6 and 9. Do whatever it takes to reclaim the national prominence of the World Series IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  12. #41
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Go all day like the NCAA tourney does. Noon, 3, 6 and 9. Do whatever it takes to reclaim the national prominence of the World Series IMO.

    Try again. Remember, you have to have the games in the afternon or in prime time. And if you can't start games at 8:30, why in the world are you wanting to start them at 9? Plus one network is carrying the games so 3 hours for a game isn't going to cut it, especially if the Sox are in the playoffs.
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  13. #42
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Try again. Remember, you have to have the games in the afternon or in prime time. And if you can't start games at 8:30, why in the world are you wanting to start them at 9? Plus one network is carrying the games so 3 hours for a game isn't going to cut it, especially if the Sox are in the playoffs.
    I'm talking about the World Series. Schedule games 1,2 6 and 7 on the week-ends and start them at 6:30. Heck, add games in the earlier rounds and push it back a couple days if you have to, just make the series a national event again. There isn't any way to deal with the earlier rounds. Its the price paid for having more teams in the play-offs. Baseball's primary concern should be making the series important again. It means eliminating dead time by cutting the unnecessary off days or adding more games and making as many Series games available at a time where the entire country can watch the game. Actually making the division series best of 7 would do the same thing, just instead of starting the series on the Saturday before when it started this year, it would start on the Saturday after.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #43
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    There is no real solution to the time zone thing. .
    Sure there is. Congress could mandate that we only have 2 time zones in the continental United States. China has only one time zone. We don't need four.


    But if you're implying that baseball can't do anything about it, you're correct.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  15. #44
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    Two time zones? throw in no daylight savings time and I'm in.
    Go Gators!

  16. #45
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Fox and MLB don't mind WS games that end after midnight... But fans do

    At least MLB avoided a ratings hit if they would have had to go against MNF with the Broncos tomorrow.


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