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Thread: NBA Thread

  1. #166
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    Re: NBA Thread

    I think the Spurs get by a lot on name recognition.

    Finley is shooting less than 40%. Horry is averaging less than 3 PPG. Vaughn is so good that the Spurs begged Stoudamire to be their back-up PG.

    That said I think they do have one of the better benches. Experience counts. That is why I am so excited about Cassell (two rings).


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  3. #167
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    Re: NBA Thread

    Strangely,even though I still believe that the Spurs and maybe the Jazz are capable of knocking the Lakers off in a seven game series, a potential first round match-up with athletic teams like the Nuggets or Warriors could well expose the Spurs achilles heel.....lack of athleticsm, resulting in a first round ouster.

    Yeah, I know the Spurs knocked off both the Nuggets and Suns last year, but keep in mind that Kenyon Martin wasn't available for the Nuggets last year to provide more interior defense. We all know what happened to the Suns last year. Throw the Stoudamire suspension out the window, and the suns still should have won the series. IMHO, they lost
    because D'Antoni didn't go deep enough on his bench. You cannot win at a break-neck pace with only seven players.

  4. #168
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    Re: NBA Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    I think the Spurs get by a lot on name recognition.

    Finley is shooting less than 40%. Horry is averaging less than 3 PPG. Vaughn is so good that the Spurs begged Stoudamire to be their back-up PG.

    That said I think they do have one of the better benches. Experience counts. That is why I am so excited about Cassell (two rings).
    Finley is shooting .399 from the field I'd say he's shooting 40% which isn't great but he is shooting 37% from the 3pt line where about half of his shots come from. He only shot 41% from the field last year during the playoffs but still shot very well from the 3pt line.

    Horry usually doesn't play well until late in the season/playoff time. He's not a guy who's ever going to score that many points but the Spurs don't need him to score, he only averaged 4pts a game in the playoffs last year.

    The Spurs signed Stoudamire to fill in for Parker while he's injured because Vaughn was the only other point guard they had on the team and Vaughn shoots 40% from the 3pt line.
    "I know a lot about the law and various other lawyerings."

    Hitters who avoid outs are the funnest.

  5. #169
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    Re: NBA Thread

    I think what you are trying to say is that the Spurs don't really rely on their bench. So long as Horry hits a big shot or two and Pop continues to run one of his starters (Manu) off the bench the Spurs will continue to have "the best bench in basketball".

    I am fan of the Spurs. I am not a fan of the Spurs bench as a unit. Horry doesn't wait to start playing well. He just happens to hit some big shots when it matters. At this stage of his career, Robert Horry is not very good.

    The Spurs are very weak at PG. Stoudamire is not the same guy who tore up the league in the mid 90s.

    The wings are old, Barry and Finley. Finley scores ten a game but he needs ten shots to get it. These guys were really good, five years ago. Now they are just along for the ride.

    The Spurs are weak inside. Kurt Thomas was a nice addition but he too is running on fumes.

    I think more than any other team the Spurs rely on their top players. I think the Celtics can win, in the play-offs with Paul Pierce or Ray Allen shooting 4-15. They have constantly been winning under those conditions during the season, thanks to the bench. I don't believe the Spurs win very often when Duncan or Manu shoot that poorly.

    Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat. I just think when the Spurs skin a cat, the bench gets more of the credit than they really deserve.

  6. #170
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    Re: NBA Thread

    I'll tell you who has perhaps been the biggest surprise for the Celtics to this point: Glen Davis.

    Kid should try ballet, he's got some serious twinkle-toes (in a good way).

    Awesome decision to draft him by the Celts.

  7. #171
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    Re: NBA Thread

    He or Rondo probably WMR. Rondo is playing great basketball. He had 16 assist the other day. He is constantly filling the stat sheet. He'll scored 9 points, dish out 8 assist, grab 7 rebounds and come up with 4 or 5 steals. Just a great all around player. He is going to be scary good in another couple of years.

  8. #172
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    Re: NBA Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    I think what you are trying to say is that the Spurs don't really rely on their bench. So long as Horry hits a big shot or two and Pop continues to run one of his starters (Manu) off the bench the Spurs will continue to have "the best bench in basketball".

    I am fan of the Spurs. I am not a fan of the Spurs bench as a unit. Horry doesn't wait to start playing well. He just happens to hit some big shots when it matters. At this stage of his career, Robert Horry is not very good.

    The Spurs are very weak at PG. Stoudamire is not the same guy who tore up the league in the mid 90s.

    The wings are old, Barry and Finley. Finley scores ten a game but he needs ten shots to get it. These guys were really good, five years ago. Now they are just along for the ride.

    The Spurs are weak inside. Kurt Thomas was a nice addition but he too is running on fumes.

    I think more than any other team the Spurs rely on their top players. I think the Celtics can win, in the play-offs with Paul Pierce or Ray Allen shooting 4-15. They have constantly been winning under those conditions during the season, thanks to the bench. I don't believe the Spurs win very often when Duncan or Manu shoot that poorly.

    Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat. I just think when the Spurs skin a cat, the bench gets more of the credit than they really deserve.
    Yeah well Sam Cassell's not the same player he was in the 90s either.

    The Celtics play a lot of crappy teams in the east, so they can win when their top players don't play as well.

    What the Spurs need out of Finley and Barry is 3pt shooting and they get it, as old as they are they shoot very well from outside and so does Jaques Vaughn. They don't need to score as much they just need to spread the court and make the defense be aware of them when they are on the court.
    "I know a lot about the law and various other lawyerings."

    Hitters who avoid outs are the funnest.

  9. #173
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    Re: NBA Thread

    I have been impressed with the Celtic bench this year. Leon Powe and Glen Davis bring a great energy off the bench and Powe really shone while Garnett was out. The weak point has been at the back up point guard. House is okay but really is more of a shooting guard. He lacks the ability to create that is Rondo's forte. The biggest issue that I would have with the Celtic personnel is how it is utilized by Doc at times. There are times he goes small for too long especially late in the game. For a long time he would not play Perkins in the 4th quarter and without him or Powe in there with Garnett the Celtics will end up on the perimeter too much. Garnett will often then come out to set picks, leaving no one under to rebound and if the 3 stops falling, the C's stop scoring. Almost cost them the game the other night.

  10. #174
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    Re: NBA Thread

    Jacque Vaugh has taken 5 shots from behind the arc all season.

    I realize Cassell isn't the same player but his production has not been cut in half from his best seasons. He is 3 points and 1 assist from his career average. Finley is nearly 7 points below his career average. As is Damon Stoudamire. Sam Cassell is playing at a much higher level than either.

    As for the crappy teams, 3 of the 4 worst teams in the league are in the West and the Celtics are 18-3 vs the Western conference this season, including being unbeaten vs the Lakers, Spurs, Mavericks, Jazz and Rockets.

    The Celtics have a great team. The excuse that they are in the East is just lame. If the Reds are the best team in the NL, redszone is not going to want to hear it is because they are in the weaker league.
    Last edited by MaineRed; 03-04-2008 at 01:25 PM.

  11. #175
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    Re: NBA Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Jacque Vaugh has taken 5 shots from behind the arc all season.

    I realize Cassell isn't the same player but his production has not been cut in half from his best seasons. He is 3 points and 1 assist from his career average. Finley is nearly 7 points below his career average. As is Damon Stoudamire. Sam Cassell is playing at a much higher level than either.

    As for the crappy teams, 3 of the 4 worst teams in the league are in the West and the Celtics are 18-3 vs the Western conference this season, including being unbeaten vs the Lakers, Spurs, Mavericks, Jazz and Rockets.

    The Celtics have a great team. The excuse that they are in the East is just lame. If the Reds are the best team in the NL, redszone is not going to want to hear it is because they are in the weaker league.
    Never said the Celtics didn't have a great team, in fact I think they're one of the top two or three teams in the NBA. I've already said that I'd give the Spurs' bench only a slight edge, meaning the Celtics' is second, barely.

    You do have to admit that there is more of a majority of weak teams in the East, the bad teams in the West get more exposed because they have to play more good teams, but I didn't say that the Celtics weren't a great team because they play in the East.

    I like how you tried to make it out like I said something I didn't. You said that the Celtics have won games when their good players have shot poorly, and yes they have but they haven't done that against the good teams from the West.

    Against teams from the West with records of .500 or better Boston's big 3 have done this:

    Allen: 47% from the field, 20.3 ppg.
    Pierce: 46% from the field, 22.4 ppg and 4.3 apg.
    Garnett: 55% from the field, 18.5 ppg and 10.2 rpg.

    All of those numbers are above their season averages (except Garnett's ppg which is right at his season average). My point isn't and never was that the Celtics are weak because they play in the weak East. I was just speaking to your point about the Celtics being able to win even when they're top three don't shoot well. And I agree against weak Eastern teams they can do that, but as I showed above that isn't true against good Western teams.

    As far as the Spurs being able to win without their good players playing well, look at the run they went on while Parker was out. Again mostly against weak East teams. They obviously need their good players to play well against good teams, but so do the Celtics.

    Sam Cassell has been playing on a crappy Clippers team, so of course his numbers aren't going to drop off as much as Finley's. I would submit to that if Cassell had been playing for the Spurs or Celtics most of this year he'd be averaging at least 7 pts below his career average.
    "I know a lot about the law and various other lawyerings."

    Hitters who avoid outs are the funnest.

  12. #176
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    Re: NBA Thread

    I've watched Cassell play several times this year and I think he is going to be a great pick up for Boston. He still plays at a high level and will probably only have to play about 25 minutes a night on that team so fatigue and his injury issues shouldn't matter as much. I attended two games this year that he just took over late and really kept the Clips in it.

  13. #177
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    Re: NBA Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    As far as the Spurs being able to win without their good players playing well, look at the run they went on while Parker was out. Again mostly against weak East teams. They obviously need their good players to play well against good teams, but so do the Celtics.
    Ginobili was on fire for some of those wins during the rodeo road trip. I believe he scored over 40 in two of those games, much of it from 3-point range.
    /r/reds

  14. #178
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    Re: NBA Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    I've watched Cassell play several times this year and I think he is going to be a great pick up for Boston. He still plays at a high level and will probably only have to play about 25 minutes a night on that team so fatigue and his injury issues shouldn't matter as much. I attended two games this year that he just took over late and really kept the Clips in it.
    Of course he's a great pick up for Boston, I never said he wasn't. My point was that he won't average more than 8-10 pts a game for the Celtics, not because he can't, but because they won't need more than that out of him. The same with Finley for SA.
    "I know a lot about the law and various other lawyerings."

    Hitters who avoid outs are the funnest.

  15. #179
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    Re: NBA Thread

    I want a Lakers-Celtics Final. It'll be just like the 80's all over again.

  16. #180
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    Re: NBA Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    I want a Lakers-Celtics Final. It'll be just like the 80's all over again.
    I want a Suns - Celtics Final. But unfortunately the Great Shaq Experiment isn't going very well.
    "I know a lot about the law and various other lawyerings."

    Hitters who avoid outs are the funnest.


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