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Thread: Great Day for College Football

  1. #121
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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    LOL! Nah, just a typo.

    But I've contended for a few years that the rest of the Big Ten needs to move into this century as far as offense goes. I think the defenses in the Big Ten overall are really good. But the style off offense played at a lot of the schools is outdated. Once some of these other schools make the switch to the modern day style of offense, the Big Ten should rise again. I think the past couple of seasons have been down years for the Big Ten, so I was mostly arguing historical. this year is this year. The tide will turn. Most years, the conferences are quite close, IMO.
    Well, either way, I'm going to use it.

    Agreed. I think style of play has hurt some Bog Ten teams in getting skilled offensive recruits.

    BTW, Purdue's getting a very interesting player from the Dayton area next year -- Roy Roundtree from Trotwood-Madison. Saw him this past weekend in a playoff game. Kid is a playmaker. Kinda undersized, but exciting to watch.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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  3. #122
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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    dabvu, Big Ten football can be ugly, especially when two Bog Ten teams are playing against each other. That doesn't always mean they aren't playing at as high a level. The Big Ten style isn't as fun to watch, but it has historically matchedup well when they've gone against SEC team - last year's national title game excepting.
    Here is my point about the SEC and Big 10. This entire discussion, the entire hatred for an over rated OSU team by just about everyone outside of ohio, is based largely upon one football game. It wasn't based upon who OSU had returning, it wasn't base upon the acutal talent they had coming in, it wasn't based upon their coaching staff, rather it was based upon one lopsided loss.

    OSU started the season ranked outside the top 10 while LSU started the season the pre season #1. If you look at the 06 teams and compare who they lost to the current teams they are rather similar. Both teams lost a ton of talent on the offensive side of the ball but had a lot coming back on the defensive side of the ball. The ONLY difference was the perception. OSU is still considered slow but I would be willing to bet if you average all speed measures across the entire team OSU would compare with the fastest teams in the country. If you want to break look at this season LSU lost to an average UK team. If they dont lose that game then we aren't having this discussion. Many people were pimping South Florida over OSU because of perception rather than reality. Is the SEC the best conference in the country, probably, but that doesn't mean the best team in the country has to come from that conference. It also doesn't mean that they are deserving of anything.

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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Who is saying the Big Ten sucks?
    The media. This board. The south.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    The outside world has tried to give the Big Ten credit this year.
    Who? The Big Ten Network? I have seen the exact opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Michigan was highly ranked and lost to 1-AA team.
    Yes, that has been mentioned before. And Michigan is #12 now in the BCS. Great win for App. State, but no different than if a strong MAC team were to defeat Michigan. App. State, N.D. State, and other I-AA's are just has good as many of the non-BCS schools such as Troy (that just almost beat Georgia). The App State upset was huge, but in today's day of limited scholarships, the powers are going to lose every once in a while to a non-power. Stanford over USC was worse, but all we hear about is App State. Hell, USC drops seven spots in the polls for losing to Stanford. Michigan drops out of the top 25 altogether and one could argue that App State is much better than Stanford. Double-standard perpetuated by the media and the powers that be.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    All I heard about before OSU took down Purdue was about Purdue's nation leading offense. Then before the Penn State game all I heard about was the whiteout and how OSU was bound to lose.
    Exactly. And all you heard going into the UK-LSU game was how great UK was and then they won. The Buckeyes took care of business and LSU did not. You are taking away from the wins, by stating they (Penn St. and Purdue) were not real teams to begin with. Again, how can I argue with such logic? Maybe OSU is just that good AND in a deep conference. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Both games were duds. Zook and Illinois was everyone's darling and they lost to a very banged up Iowa squad. Wisconsin was highly ranked and then forgot how to tackle for 3 games.
    But I keep hearing the SEC is the only conference where the teams beat each other up. Illinois loss to Iowa is the only loss of the top 7 Big Ten teams that has happened outside that top 7 (other than OOC - Missouri, App State, Oregon). Wisconsin just lost to the
    #1 team in the country and to two other teams (Penn State and Illinois) that should be recognized as top 25 teams. What's the big deal? The SEC does the same thing, but is credited with it. And shouldn't the fact that the Big Ten's top teams (other than Michigan and OSU this year) are all beating each other prove the conference is pretty deep and good too? I don't care if both games were "duds". I don't need to be entertained with a triple-overtime thrillers to think one conference is so much deeper than another


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    And lets not get too worked up about SEC bias. They have one team in the top 9. 8 teams from the other leagues, 3 from the Big 12 are ranked in the top 9.
    I'm more concerned with the 5 teams with three losses in the top 25. This is what leads to the "SEC's has superior depth" myth. If every SEC team is in the top 25 and they all beat each other and all go 6-5 they all should stay in the top 25, because they all must be great, because they all beat each other, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    What makes the SEC better is the number of Penn States and Purdues. There are more of them in the SEC. You don't have Heisman canidates and record breaking backs playing for the 9th place team in the Big Ten.
    So Darrin McFadden makes the SEC better than the Big Ten? Ok. Maybe McFadden's team is not very good. They certainly haven't played anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    But that doesn't mean the teams at the top aren't good. Unless they played each other on a regular basis some of it has to be subjective but when LSU a team with as much talent as anyone in the country play a confernce game they get tested. Ohio State, they just roll over everyone. After the BCS game last year with Florida does anyone think OSU is better than LSU? Does anyone think Ohio State would go on the road to Bama and Auburn or Florida and Tennessee and roll, week after week after week? I don't.
    Maybe OSU is that much better than LSU. And funny, I remember OSU NOT rolling over everyone in 2002, but that was dismissed as being "lucky". Does anyone else see the double standard? I guess it was "lucky" in 2002 because OSU won close in low-scoring defensive struggles, but high-scoring triple-overtime wins mean you are not lucky, but GREAT and in a DEEP conference.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    I don't think it is fair to say that the gap between the Big East or ACC and the SEC is small.
    I think the gap is so small I think it is splitting hairs, to be honest. One game here or there. Michigan beating Oregon could flip those conference rankings around.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Other than a couple of Big East schools they would all get killed in the SEC while most SEC schools would be favorites to win the Big East against all teams except maybe WVU. The ACCs best team is BC or VT (they played and the score was 14-10) and LSU kicked the crap out of VT. Sure the game was in Baton Rouge but I don't hear Oregon making excuses for their loss at the Big House.
    Maine, I know you are a smart guy and know your football, so don't take offense to this, but saying "they would all get killed in the SEC" is the exact kind of logic I'm arguing against.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    And if SOS isn't important, just winning games and being in a BCS conference is, isn't college football opening itself up to reward the lower tiered BCS conferences while inviting teams to play nobody outside of their league? We should be impressed when LSU smokes Va Tech or Oregon blast Michigan. Right? So why not be unimpressed when Kansas is playing Toledo and Florida Atlantic?
    I agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    I don't buy the argument that MTS should just schedule the big guys and beat them if they want to win. Why doesn't Kansas have to do the same thing? Why is their cupcake schedule rewarded but the schedule of MTS has to be examined with a fine tooth comb? What happened to just winning games?
    Well. MTSU is not in a BCS conference, like Kansas for one thing. For another, MTSU is not undefeated right now. If they were, they would have had to knock off a few BCS schools and roll through their conference. I don't see people knocking on Hawaii, but if they were #4 or #5 right now in the BCS, they WOULD get knocked for not beating anyone in the top 30. And who said Kansas's cupcake schedule is being rewarded? They are on then outside looking in. They are the only undefeated BCS school (other than OSU) left and are on the outside looking in. Why? Their cupcake schedule. However, if they beat OU and Missouri they SHOULD be in, but they won't because of the media's love affair with the SEC and LSU.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    We need SOS and it needs to be important. It is a big determining factor, especially when there are more than two unbeatens. Otherwise what are you going to use to pick the two title teams, a coin flip? If you are going to heavily weigh SOS then, don't you have to now?
    SOS is a good tool, but it's not relevant until the season plays itself out. Remember, SOS is a factor in the computers and OSU is #1. Kansas is #4 and I think, ironically if they win out, it will be the computers and not the pollsters that elevate them past LSU.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Someone wrote that we can't just assume Kansas is bad because they haven't played anyone. Well is it fair to the other teams that we think we have the answer on to just guess that they are good because they have won all their games? I don't know how good they are as they aren't on TV and when they are they don't play anyone. How can I just assume they are good when I don't know?
    The computers are non-biased and show Kansas as #4. That's good enough for me. I mean, again, we are splitting hairs. If you don't think they should be in the top 10 or 20, that's where we may have an issue. The computers say they are #4. What's the issue? Maybe they should have won more close conference games to show conference depth, I don't know.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    I'm more than willing to be fair with Kansas but I need something to go on besides wins over secondary competition. Just from who they have played and the scores of the games I think Kansas would be lucky to have less than 3 losses right now if they played Ohio State's schedule.
    I doubt that. Maybe one loss. But I know one thing, Kansas would still be undefeated if they played Arkansas's schedule.

  5. #124
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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Yeah, a game ten year ago will tell you which conference is best THIS year.
    Here's what I see. Everyone wants to throw around subjective arguments about how the SEC is better. "WE beat this team and YOU lost to that team so we must be better." "Could your middle of the pack teams make it in our deep conference?" I provided objective head-to-head data from the last 10 years and I get this from you. C'mon man. We were doing pretty good here discussing this. It's the only thing we have to measure the two conferences fairly. You don't like 10 years? Well, I provided the results from last year. I mean, everyone wants to bring up the OSU-Florida NC game all the time in the SEC- Big Ten discussions. How about the Big Ten going 2-0 on SEC turf in bowl games and 1-0 in another (Vandy losing to Michigan)? The Big Ten LAST YEAR was 3-1 against the SEC. Not 10 years ago. LAST YEAR. Nobody has played this year (yet) so we have no objective data for 2007.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Seems to me if you are digging up stats from TEN years ago then you are struggling to find relevant data that backs up what you want it to say.
    Again, those are the last 26 bowls the Big Ten and SEC has faced off in. I could go back 5 years as well Big Ten is 8-6. The last three years the Big Ten is 5-4. And what relevant data have you even attempted to provide?


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Purdue is one of the top teams in the Big Ten. Kentucky is a bottom 4 SEC team. And you, the Big Ten fan took the time to compare the two. So one of your better teams is one of the SEC's worst? But your real argument is that this proves the Big Ten is just as good?

    Thanks for proving my point. UK is "bottom 4"? You hear that UK fans? He says you are bottom 4. If they are bottom 4, Maine, please tell me why they are ranked in the top 25, while five other SEC schools are not ranked. Over the past few years they might be bottom four, but this year, according to the media, they are not. Purdue is unranked. The only reason I compared the two was to show the double-standard that exists. I think you're using UK's past reputation to downgrade them. They are 6-3. Purdue is 7-3. UK is 2-3 in conference and Purdue is 3-3 in conference. What makes you think that Purdue is one of the Big Ten's "better" teams? If better means top 6 or 7, then yes, they are one of the Big Ten's top six or seven teams. And UK is one of the SEC's best 6 or 7 teams. Just ask the media. They are in the top 25. So, what's the issue with comparing the two?


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    BTW, LSU had to play Kentucky the week after their biggest game of the year against Florida and the Gator game was an emotional battle. The week before Purdue, OSU was playing Minnesota.
    And you've helped me make another point. I was more comparing Purdue with UK, since you were saying that OSU must play nobody since they blew them out. Well now maybe the blowout vs. Purdue has been justified from Purdue's standpoint - because OSU faced Minnesota the week before. This point you are making lets Purdue off the hook a bit, especially after you previously stated that they were bad for getting blown out by OSU. And LSU? Well, UK snuck up on them due to the Florida game the week before. This takes away from UK's win. Look, I'm not trying to say that OSU is so much better than LSU. I'm just taking the logic and SEC mentality and flipping it around.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Do you think OSU would have such an easy time at Purdue if they played Michigan the week before? You have to take some of this stuff into consideration.
    I would if I was trying to determine which team (LSU, OSU) was worthy of a BCS title bid if they both had one loss. Fortunately, for now, that's is a non-issue. It was more a comparison between Purdue and UK and the double-standard used when trying to excuse LSU's loss, because their conference is so deep, all the while dismissing OSU's win, "because they beat them so bad Purdue must not have been that good anyway."

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    And Michigan better than Florida? Maybe on whatever piece of paper you are looking at. While understanding that this isn't last years Florida team, lets remember tha nobody gave the Gators a shot to beat OSU and the the Buckeyes had no answer for the speed Florida has. It would be the same thing if Florida played UM or PSU.

    Michigan over Florida? Yes, the computers, the polls, and here's some subjectivity - MY EYES all say Michigan is better than Florida.

    I realize OSU lost to Florida. Please don't remind me. But I thought we were talking about this year. OSU was horribly unprepared in every facet of the game and made zero adjustments LAST YEAR. See Cedric's post (in another thread) on the subject for more. I completely agree with his take. And the speed thing is another overplayed myth. I remember OSU debunking that myth in 2002 when they were "supposed" to have no shot against Miami.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    What evidence is there that Michigan is better than Florida or that PSU is better than Florida? Could either team go to LSU on a Saturday night and even give the Tigers a game? I doubt it.

    I was saying that PSU was better than South Carolina. In any case, what evidence is there either way? I have at least tried to provide some objectivity and rational debate into the discussion and you continue to base your opinions on subjectivity and faulty logic.
    Last edited by BuckeyeRedleg; 11-07-2007 at 03:46 PM.

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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Record wise Kentucky is tied for 8th in the SEC. Mississippi and Vandy are the only teams with worse conference records. An astute Kentucky fan shouldn't need me to tell them that. I told you why they are ranked and Purdue isn't, the signature win they have. You really don't think beating LSU should count for more than losing to Ohio State? Kentucky beat one of the best teams in the country and they don't have any bad losses. Neither does Purdue. The difference, the win over LSU.

    You're taking Kentucky being one of the bottom teams to mean what you want it to mean instead of what it actually means. Six of the seven teams ahead of them in the SEC are ranked at this time. The other is South Carolina. When LSU, Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee, Florida and Georgia are ahead of you, there is no shame in that.

    You are defending Ohio State pretty hard and there is no need. I have great respect for them and consider myself one of the first people to jump on the, they're good bandwagon. I was saying watch out for them a long time ago when most of the country wanted to dismiss them. I have also not said anything about them not playing anyone.

    My point wasn't that OSU is no good or that it wasn't a good win because they blew them out. It was that you rarely see games like this in the SEC because the middle of the road teams are closer in talent than the Purdues of the world are to Ohio State. Props to Ohio State, not taking anything away from them. But I am taking something away from Purdue as they prove over and over again that they can't hang with OSU and Michigan. Consistently the games in the SEC are close. And it isn't because the top teams aren't good.

    Jeff Sagrin's rankings on USAToday show the Big Ten as the 6th best conference with the Big East number 2. And there is no subjectivity to his numbers as far as I know. He has the SEC in first. His computer must be biased?

    Michigan over Florida? Yes, the computers, the polls, and here's some subjectivity - MY EYES all say Michigan is better than Florida.
    So now the polls and computers matter? Funny, the polls, the computers and MY EYES were the reason I was using to say the SEC was best and you called that faulty logic. If you want to use computers and polls I am not really sure what you are arguing. Both CLEARLY state one thing, the SEC is king.

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc07.htm

    I realize OSU lost to Florida. Please don't remind me. But I thought we were talking about this year.
    Bringing up last year is quite a bit different that 1997. Freaking Tee Martin won the national title for Tennessee in 98, I am defending the SEC and I don't think Tee Martin as anything to do with this conversation.

    If you don't want to talk last year, fine. I don't care to talk about 1997. Neither are relevant to this year. You are making arguments for what conference is traditionally the best, or the best over time. I though we WERE talking about this year. If so, what do you think of Sagarin and nearly ever other ranking that says the SEC is best? Its not just SEC fans making it up. Half the reason so many feel the way they do is because it is drilled into our head and it isn't based on opinion, it is based on computers. For whatever reason they consistently say the SEC is best. The Big Ten isn't even in the argument this year as far as Sagarins ratings go. I was giving them MUCH more credit than the computers. But I won't be questioned for that "faulty logic". Insted I'll get raked over the coals for stating (if you go by computers) the obvious truth.

    You can't talk about bias and then come at me from that angle. I am giving the Big Ten more respect than is called for, APPARENTLY. But you want to rip me for my critisim of the Big Ten?
    Last edited by MaineRed; 11-07-2007 at 05:20 PM.

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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Freaking Tee Martin won the national title for Tennessee in 98, I am defending the SEC and I don't think Tee Martin as anything to do with this conversation.
    I've heard that wouldn't have happened if Ohio State had been allowed to play in that championship game. Wouldn't have happened. (Only joking OSU fans... only joking... I hate Tennessee more than anything in the world... even more than the Big 10. )

    Jeff Sagarin can't be biased... he's got a degree from Indiana. But then again, he does have 9 SEC schools ranked in his top 31... whoops! And has Kentucky ranked 9 spots ahead of Purdue even though Purdue's 0-3 vs. his top 30 and UK is 2-3... that can't be!!!

    I keed, I keed.



    It's why college sports is so much fun. We'll never know. Even after they hand out the trophy. I love the BCS!!!
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Sagarin must have been brainwashed by Verne Lunquist.

    So 9 of the SEC is in the top 31? Are there any stats other than bowl records from when Doc Blanchard and Glen Davis were starting for Army that show that another conference is actually better than the SEC?

    Why does the SEC take all this grief yet have the most teams in the rankings, the best schedules and ALL the support from the computers?

    Obviously the Big Ten has shown they are no slouch when they have played the SEC over the years. But that isn't enough to make them the best conference in the country. The one big out of conference game played by each league saw a Big Ten big boy get crushed by the Pac 10s best while the biggest OOC game in the SEC was LSU sawing Va Tech, the ACCs big power in half.

    The Big Ten has been waxed in their last two big OOC games while the SEC has run away with their two.

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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    And the speed thing is another overplayed myth. I remember OSU debunking that myth in 2002 when they were "supposed" to have no shot against Miami.
    I remember one of the best players in the nation, a guy who had scored the third most rushing TDs in the history of college football and had run for over 1,700 yards getting hurt and thus taking away Miami's best speed threat. That injury was huge and IMO gave OSU their shot. You can't understate the value of a guy who had 1,700 yards and scored 28 TDs. Heisman finalist don't grow on trees.

    It has nothing to do with the speed myth but the pass intereference call on Miami before the winning TD was as bogus as they come. There is no doubt in my mind that Miami was the best team that year. I don't want to use the word lucky with Ohio State that year. I'll call them fortunate.

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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Record wise Kentucky is tied for 8th in the SEC. Mississippi and Vandy are the only teams with worse conference records. An astute Kentucky fan shouldn't need me to tell them that. I told you why they are ranked and Purdue isn't, the signature win they have. You really don't think beating LSU should count for more than losing to Ohio State? Kentucky beat one of the best teams in the country and they don't have any bad losses. Neither does Purdue. The difference, the win over LSU.

    Your taking Kentucky being one of the bottom teams to mean what you want it to me instead of what it actually means. Six of the seven teams ahead of them in the SEC are ranked at this time. The other is South Carolina. When LSU, Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee, Florida and Georgia are ahead of you, there is no shame in that.

    I think we are misunderstanding each other. The point is that both UK and Purdue are about the same this year and they both sit in similar positions in their conference. If you go by record, which I think is a bit misleading since they have only played 5-6 games and it's two separate divisions with separate schedules, UK is 8th in W/L % within conference. However, they are one game back from being 5th and 2 games back from being 2nd. Every SEC school (except LSU and Ole Miss) has between 2-4 losses. So, to say one is "better" than the other because one is one game up, with an uneven schedule is a stretch. Let's take Sagarin. I see (below) you mention Sagarin and I use his rankings for SOS and quality within conference as well. UK is #23, putting them 6th in their own conference. 5 teams higher, 6 teams lower. Purdue is #32 and 5th in the Big Ten. 4 teams higher. 6 teams lower. How are the two not comparable? My comparison was also based on the notion that had Purdue beaten OSU, the Big Ten would be ridiculed (unlike the SEC) for showing weakness. I think right now Purdue and UK are comparable. Had Purdue somehow won, they would be sitting above UK in Sagarin's ratings.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Jeff Sagrin's rankings on USAToday show the Big Ten as the 6th best conference with the Big East number 2. And there is no subjectivity to his numbers as far as I know. He has the SEC in first. His computer must be biased?

    No, I contended several posts earlier, that this may be a factor of SOS and that the Big Ten has played all their cupcakes already (so their SOS is way lower). I also contended that there is little that separates the BCS conferences 1 through 6, and I was taking into account Sagarin when I contended that.

    1 SOUTHEASTERN = 80.69
    2 BIG EAST = 78.48
    3 BIG 12 = 77.90
    4 PAC-10 = 77.44
    5 ACC = 76.86
    6 BIG TEN = 76.13

    7 MOUNTAIN WEST= 69.18

    Again, look at the numbers. A game or two here and there and it could be changed. I wish I could find out how those numbers would change if Michigan didn't lose early, because my main contention is if it were not for two games (App. State and Oregon) that the whole thing would be different. That's okay though. I understand, they DID lose. We can't change that. But that and the fact that the SEC plays their cupcakes from the SunBelt later does skew these numbers. That's my point. It's such a small sample size that these numbers fluctuate weekly. Once conference games start, it's hard for one conference to pass another. The thing that's odd though, is that the SEC and Big Ten both have the #1 and #2 OOC winning percentages, so I'm not sure why the Big Ten is 6th. Anyway, if you look at the Mountain West, in relation to the other six, you see a big drop off. That tells me that the top 6 conferences are all solid. Again, a game or two here and there and not worth splitting hairs over. A team can be the best and come from one of these six conferences, regardless of who they played OOC.



    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Now the polls and computers matter? Funny, the polls, the computers and MY EYES were the reason I was using to say the SEC was best and you called that faulty logic. If you want to use computers and polls I am not really sure what you are arguing. Both CLEARLY state one thing, the SEC is king.
    King of what? The mythical November 7th version of the Sagarin ratings championship? We'll see how they do head-to-head vs. the Big Ten in December and January. I'm betting we'll get three games matching the two up and at this point I hope to God that OSU and LSU both win out.

    I'm always supporting the computers in these discussions, but my point from the beginning is that the computers don't really have a problem with the Big Ten, but with Michigan losing those first two.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Bringing up last year is quite a bit different that 1997. Freaking Tee Martin won the national title for Tennessee in 98, I am defending the SEC and I don't think Tee Martin as anything to do with this conversation.
    You know that 1997 wasn't the crux of my argument. I listed the last 26 bowls between the Big Ten and SEC to show how even they have been over the years head-to-head - on SEC turf. I don't see what the problem with this is. I wasn't quoting the Big Ten's record vs. the SEC in 1997.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    If you don't want to talk last year, fine. I don't care to talk about 1997.

    Again, who said anything about 1997? Last year (2007), the Big Ten was 3-1 vs. the SEC. I just don't want to talk about OSU-Florida, because I just recently was able to sleep again without the lights on after that nightmare. If OSU loses to Michigan, I hope that Florida wins out and they somehow sneak into the BCS. I would love for OSU to play them again.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Neither are relevant to this year. You are making arguments for what conference is traditionally the best, or the best over time. I though we WERE talking about this year. If so, what do you think of Sagarin and nearly ever other ranking that says the SEC is best?
    For the umpteenth time, my argument wasn't that the SEC wasn't good or shouldn't be ranked #1 as much as it was that a double standard exists for the Big Ten and the conferences are so close that it's not fair to judge one team over the other because of their conference affiliation (see: the Kansas or UK-Purdue argument).

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Its not just SEC fans making it up. Half the reason so many feel the way they do is because it is drilled into our head and it isn't based on opinion, it is based on computers.
    And the computers love OSU (#1), Oregon (#3), Kansas (#4), Arizona State (#5), Boston College (#6), Oklahoma (#7), and Missouri (#8) even though none of them play in the mighty SEC.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    For whatever reason they consistently say the SEC is best. The Big Ten isn't even in the argument this year as far as Sagarins ratings go. I was giving them MUCH more credit than the computers. But I won't be questioned for that "faulty logic". Insted I'll get raked over the coals for stating (if you go by computers) the obvious truth.
    Again, who cares? I find it humorous that a fan base cares more about the conference as a whole than their individual team. It seems like some kind of southern inferiority complex or something. Great. The SEC conference is "rated" number 1. Does that prove anything? No, because they have to prove it on the field. Every year I root against Michigan in whatever bowl they go to. Why do I care if they win? What kind of weird pride does that give me? The SEC fan base is so wrapped up in what conference is better and ripping on everything not SEC that they miss the whole point. I suggest they just succeed from the BCS like they did from the Union. Maybe then, they'll start caring about their own individual teams again.
    Last edited by BuckeyeRedleg; 11-07-2007 at 06:44 PM.

  11. #130
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    I've heard that wouldn't have happened if Ohio State had been allowed to play in that championship game. Wouldn't have happened. (Only joking OSU fans... only joking...
    Why, I outta...

  12. #131
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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Sagarin must have been brainwashed by Verne Lunquist.

    So 9 of the SEC is in the top 31? Are there any stats other than bowl records from when Doc Blanchard and Glen Davis were starting for Army that show that another conference is actually better than the SEC?

    Why does the SEC take all this grief yet have the most teams in the rankings, the best schedules and ALL the support from the computers?

    Obviously the Big Ten has shown they are no slouch when they have played the SEC over the years. But that isn't enough to make them the best conference in the country. The one big out of conference game played by each league saw a Big Ten big boy get crushed by the Pac 10s best while the biggest OOC game in the SEC was LSU sawing Va Tech, the ACCs big power in half.

    The Big Ten has been waxed in their last two big OOC games while the SEC has run away with their two.
    Way to flip it around. Good one. Just argue with yourself. You have totally missed the point.

  13. #132
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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    The SEC still has games with Wake Forrest, Georgia Tech, Clemson and Florida State. Not world beaters but very resectable out of confernce opponents.

    I'm not from the south nor do I have a horse the race. I'm not a member of the SEC. I'm a college football fan who enjoys OSU vs. Michigan just as much as I enjoy LSU-Auburn.

    I don't know where this whole thing started. This thread or as a whole. Personally I have never made the starting comment in one of these conference debates. I usually jump in when I see someone slicing up the SEC while ignoring the same polls, computers and rankings that they use to defend their own team. I have no intention to go around promoting the SEC. But I do enjoy debates about the whole thing. At the same time I'm not sure why you have to go and announce that the SEC should just leave the BCS because of comments from some guy from Maine who has no affiliations with the SEC. You act like half the South is here on the board shoving it down your throat.

    I don't cheer for SEC teams in bowl games either. Other than one bowl game each year I could care less. And I agree with your data that shows the Big Ten is right up there. And like I said I really don't see that much critism of the Big Ten other than people stating what the computers state. Are those people really that far off? Maybe it is close enough that nobody should be worrying about it. But enough people like to talk about it so I don't see the problem.

  14. #133
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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    McGahee hadn't done squat that game. It wasn't until the 4th quarter that he got hurt. He had 20 carries in the game. And his backup was some guy named Frank Gore. If people want to play up conference stereotypes, then that was a game where Miami couldn't handle the hard hitting of the Buckeyes. Ohio State came out and hit Miami like they had never been hit before and it tooko them by surprise. They didn't have an answer for it. They just out-toughed the Hurricanes that particular game.

    And honestly, I also thought the PI call was a bad one. Actually, it kind of ruined my night. I didn't feel as elated as a fan should when their team wins the National Championship because I felt like they got help from that call. But a couple of things got me past that. First, it allowed Ohio State to tie, not win. They still had to play another round of overtime with a clean slate.

    But more importantly, Lee Corso of all people before the next season was on one of the ESPN radio shows and was asked about it. He said he was so tired of being asked about that call. He said if you really want to be fair, you have to go back to OSU's final drive in regulation. They had 3rd down and long with just a couple of minutes left to play in Miami territory. Krenzel threw a pass to Michael Jenkins that would have given them the first down and pretty much let them run the clock out from there. It was the most important play of the game. The ref called Jenkins out of bounds, but the replay showed he was clearly in. So the refs blew that call that forced OSU to punt. Roscoe Parrish returned i 50 yards into FG terriotory and they tied it with a FG.

    So the refs blew a call that would have virtually ended the game in regulation. They also blew a call that would ended it in overtime. IMO, they're a wash. OSU played a better game than Miami. They came out with a gameplan Miami never anticipated and wasn't prepared for. I don't disagree with you that Miami was the best team that year. Had they played again, Miami probably wins. But on that night, the Bucks outplayed them from start to finish. The best team doesn't always win. We see it all the time. All you have to do it be better on a single night. That's the upside of having such a huge amount of time between the final game and the title game. It allows a team time to devise and practice for weeks an entirely new gameplan that the other team would never expect. You can't do that in one or two weeks.
    Last edited by MWM; 11-07-2007 at 08:10 PM.
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  15. #134
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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    He said if you really want to be fair, you have to go back to OSU's final drive in regulation. They had 3rd down and long with just a couple of minutes left to play in Miami territory. Krenzel threw a pass to Michael Jenkins that would have given them the first down and pretty much let them run the clock out from there. It was the most important play of the game. The ref called Jenkins out of bounds, but the replay showed he was clearly in. So the refs blew that call that forced OSU to punt. Roscoe Parrish returned i 50 yards into FG terriotory and they tied it with a FG.

    So the refs blew a call that would have virtually ended the game in regulation. They also blew a call that would ended it in overtime. IMO, they're a wash.
    Exactly. If people wanted to be fair.
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    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Nobody wants to be fair on this site about Ohio State. But yet Ohio State fans were the one's getting ripped for months on here about everything.

    Bringing up the 02 game and trying to turn that against Ohio State? McGahee did absolutely nothing in that game and got hurt in the 4th quarter. You aren't biased huh?

    And Ohio State had 11 defensive starters on that team drafted and countless other underclassmen drafted on that defense. That isn't even mentioning the Oline, Wr's, and Clarett.

    Ohio State was loaded that year and absolutely dominated the Miami Oline. Who led the whole game? What a joke people still bring up that game and try and mouth Ohio State. They flat out whipped Miami with Craig freaking Krenzel at Qb. The better team won that night. They were better coached and had just as much talent.
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