Turn Off Ads?
Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567891011 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 156

Thread: Great Day for College Football

  1. #91
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,672

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    I look at it this way. Yes Kansas has clearly played a weaker schedule than Oregon and LSU to this point. However for them to go undefeated they are going to have to beat Mizzou and Oklahoma. Oregon lost to Cal and LSU lost to Kentucky. I would take both Mizzou and Oklahoma to beat Cal and Kentucky. So if Kansas can win out they deserve it more than Oregon and LSU. Not because there road was harder but because they did something that LSU and Cal could not.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #92
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    1,850

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    I would take just about everyone LSU has played to smoke the pants off Kansas' entire schedule thus far.

    If LSU continues on they have to play a conference title game as well and it will be Georgia, Tennessee or Florida. And they still have to deal with Darren McFadden. This after playing a very tough schedule to date, the number 9 schedule to be exact, according to CBS Sportsline.

    And consider this. There are SEVEN teams from the SEC in the cbs top 25 and ALL of them have top 25 strength of schedules. There are only TWO other TEAMS in the top 25, Oregon and Virginia Tech that have top 25 SOS.
    Last edited by MaineRed; 11-06-2007 at 08:41 PM.

  4. #93
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    5,350

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    What's strange is that the SEC hasn't played that tough of a non-conference schedule.

    It's like they are rewarded for playing each other. And five SEC teams (with three losses) are in the top 25, but only one of the four Big Ten teams with three losses are in the top 25. The reason the four Big 10 teams have three losses is because they have lost to each other and to 2-loss Michigan and undefeated OSU. I also find it strange that once OSU beats someone, they automatically are considered worthless. Take Purdue. 3 losses. At UM, vs. OSU, and at PSU. And they don't sniff the top 25 in any of the three main polls. They were top 25 when OSU beat them, but now, for some reason, it's not considered a decent win for OSU. Same for Penn State and Wisconsin. I'm sure after OSU beats Illinois, we'll hear how bad Illinois is. Also, the number 1 team in the land beats these teams and they drop like a ton of bricks. Wisconsin drops and average of 8 spots in each of the polls by losing one the road to the number one team in the country.

    I think the SEC OOC schedule strength will start to take a little dip as many have not played their OOC cupcakes yet. LSU has LA Tech, UF still has Fl. Atlantic, Alabama with LA. Monroe(Ole Miss just played Northwestern State and Auburn just played Tenn. Tech). The Big 10 played their cupcakes earlier on.

    I did some research on this last month and was surprised to find that the SEC played a weaker OOC schedule (as far as cupcakes-non BCS and 1-AA OOC) than the Big 10. The Big 10's little brother is the MAC and the SEC's is the Sun Belt. The MAC is much better than the lowly Sunbelt and both the SEC and Big 10 play the same number of 1-AA's with the SEC playing a far worse I-AA batch.

    I really think the two losses Michigan suffered are causing a huge discrepancy between the leagues in SOS's.
    Last edited by BuckeyeRedleg; 11-06-2007 at 09:16 PM.

  5. #94
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    1,850

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    SEC teams ARE rewarded for playing each other. You play good teams it helps your schedule strength and nobody plays as many good teams as the SEC does. They have played some tough OOC games as well.

    LSU played Virginia Tech. It is one of the best OOC wins any team has this year. Auburn played South Florida and Kansas State. Florida has FSU coming up. Tennessee played Cal. Georgia played Oklahoma State and still has Ga Tech. Alabama played FSU. Vanderbilts last game is against Wake Forrest. USC has Clemson coming up. Mississippi played Mizzou.

    The Big Ten might collectively play a tougher schedule but they can't match the competition the SEC has faced at the top. Michigan played Oregon and Illinois played Mizzou. After that all that I don't see a whole lot. Washington, Washington State, Notre Dame, Syracuse and Pitt.

    Maybe the weak sisters the Big Ten picks on are better than those the SEC beats up but I don't see how that is relevant. You should get credit for the good teams you beat. If your whole season is cupcakes that is one thing but I don't see any reason to break down Florida Atlantic vs. Kent or La Monroe vs. Citadel.
    Last edited by MaineRed; 11-06-2007 at 09:40 PM.

  6. #95
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    5,350

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    I guess I just don't understand the math. The Big Ten's best teams have similar records as the SEC's best teams and have beat each other up as well. Both conferences have won their OOC games (except for UM) and I don't see alot OOC that seperates the two.

    As I said, everyone has their non BCS cupcakes. Nobody has a monopoly on these games. The Big Ten did have to face two top 6 schools (Oregon and Missouri). Other than VTech, I don't see any SEC OOC games that match those two. Notre Dame has been to two straight BCS bowls, but just happens to suck eggs this year. Can't blame the Big Ten for those four wins.

    I just don't see the big disparity between conferences. Maybe the SEC is a tad better, but the argument that they are better because they play each other (and they're better) seems like a circular argument to me.

  7. #96
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    1,850

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    LSU has played six conference games and all of them were against winning teams with a combined record of 36-20.

    Ohio State has played six conference games as well, three against teams with winning records for a combined 32-28.

    Oregon has played six conference games, three against winning teams for a combined 30-24.

    Kansas is 5-0 in the Big 12 and they've played two winning teams. The combined record of their conference opponents is 23-26.

    Penn State has played the toughest conference schedule I have found though, 43-17. They are the anti Kansas, avoiding Northwestern and 1-9 Minnesota in league play. Playing the Gophers really drags the numbers down.

  8. #97
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    4,138

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    I just don't see the big disparity between conferences.
    I don't see a huge disparity either, but I'd agree that the SEC is better this year, top to bottom.

    Maybe the SEC is a tad better, but the argument that they are better because they play each other (and they're better) seems like a circular argument to me.
    It's funny, but I remember this exact line of reasoning being used by some Big12 guys against the strength of the Big10 a decade or so ago.

    I agreed with them then, and I agree with you know.

    GL

  9. #98
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,423

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by MaineRed View Post
    Again, I know all the scenarios. I know how the system works. I know lots of things COULD happen. But you mentioned a one loss LSU team and then claimed that "Kansas gets to play in the championship game."

    Only an idiot would think a two loss LSU team is going to stay in front of Kansas. That aspect is of no relevance and simply doesn't need to be discussed. Nobody is going to claim a two loss LSU team deserves to be ahead of Kansas. Its a one loss LSU team that is the issue. And when you claim that Kansas gets to go to the title game because LSU doesn't get to redeem themselves it just doesn't make any sense.

    Then quit complaining about it.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  10. #99
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Mason, OH
    Posts
    12,160

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I just think it's a shame it's never going to be settled on the field.
    And this is what it comes down to.

    All of these gyrations and variations on SOS, relative strengths and weaknesses of leagues, BCS vs. non-BCS, phases of the moon, etc. don't amount to hill of beans. Having people (or computers) rank teams is an academic exercise.

    It needs to be determined on the playing field.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  11. #100
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    It needs to be determined on the playing field.
    What a novel concept. Do any other sports do this?
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  12. #101
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    4,854

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    It needs to be determined on the playing field.
    I know it really doesn't happen anymore, but it comforts me to know that if a George Mason or some other team in a lower-level conference somehow happened to possess the best college basketball team, they can win the NCAA Championship. That can't really happen in football.

    The schedule-strength argument is persuasive, but it's also a self-perpetuating closed system. To pick a school at random out of the dozens, let's take Middle Tennessee State. If MTSU somehow came into a team that could spot the New England Patriots points on a neutral field, they still wouldn't get a chance to play for the BCS title game. "They didn't play anybody," the big schools would say. These are the same big schools that would stop returning MTSU's phone calls as soon as they started getting really good, and MTSU can't join their conference at will. So how exactly would MTSU get a big-boy schedule?

    Over time, a school can pull itself upwards in the caste system. It just takes pace at glacial speed.
    Not all who wander are lost

  13. #102
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    12,324

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    The SOS schedule argument gets blown out of proportion for sure. People assume that if you don't play anyone, you're automatically not very good. Or that you couldn't beat anyone good. That's not the case. It's entirely possible that the best team in the country plays the easiest schedule. All you can do it go out and beat the people on your schedule.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  14. #103
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    5,350

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    The SOS schedule argument gets blown out of proportion for sure. People assume that if you don't play anyone, you're automatically not very good. Or that you couldn't beat anyone good. That's not the case. It's entirely possible that the best team in the country plays the easiest schedule. All you can do it go out and beat the people on your schedule.
    Exactly.

    And I think what separates the six BCS conferences is so small that it's ridiculous to claim superiority. I mean, if Michigan beats App. State and Oregon, they are number 1, OSU is number 2 and the Big 10 as a whole looks very strong. You'd have all these other Big Ten teams that have only three losses (Purdue, Penn State, Wisconsin, Illinois) with two of their three losses coming to #'s 1 and 2 (Michigan and OSU).

    Two games is all it takes to make the Big 10 go from "great" to "weak" by the consensus. Besides Michigan and their two "upsets", the other top teams in the Big Ten (OSU, Illinois, PSU, Purdue, Wisky) went a combined 18-1 out-of-conference with the only loss being Illinois to #6 Missouri by 6 points (40-34). But, yet, none of these teams (other than OSU) is a consensus top 25 team, simply due to the perception that the Big Ten is weak because of the two upsets of Michigan and OSU's collapse against Florida last year. Meanwhile, five teams from the SEC with three losses are consensus top 25.

    If things are going to be judged by such a small ample size of a game or two here or there, the Big Ten could just as easily claim superiority over the SEC by beating the SEC 3 of 4 times head-to-head last year.

    But, no. Everyone wants to focus on the perfect storm on January 8th in which Florida, a team that was lucky to even make it into the game (thanks to USC choking to UCLA) blew away the number one team in the country. Yes, the Big Ten must suck.
    Last edited by BuckeyeRedleg; 11-07-2007 at 11:16 AM.

  15. #104
    Yay!
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Middletown, Ohio
    Posts
    7,430

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Two games is all it takes to make the Big 10 go from "great" to "weak" by the consensus. Besides Michigan and their two "upsets", the other top teams in the Big Ten (OSU, Illinois, PSU, Purdue, Wisky) went a combined 18-1 out-of-conference with the only loss being Illinois to #6 Missouri by 6 points (40-34). But, yet, none of these teams (other than OSU) is a consensus top 25 team, simply due to the perception that the Big Ten is weak because of the two upsets of Michigan and OSU's collapse against Florida last year. Meanwhile, five teams from the SEC with three losses are consensus top 25.
    Here's the difference between the SEC and the Big 10... the "non-elite" teams are capable of beating the better teams.

    Vandy can (and did) go on the road and beat South Carolina. Kentucky can (and did) beat LSU. Mississippi State can (and did) go on the road and beat Kentucky. Auburn can (and did) go on the road and beat Florida. Ole Miss could have beaten both Florida and Bama.

    In the Big 10, it doesn't appear that any of the "lesser" programs is capable of competing with, much less beating either of the "Big 2." (Though Mich St. did give Mich a nice game this past weekend.)

    Let's try this another way, by looking at the lesser teams trying to get bowl eligible. Vanderbilt is currently 5-4 (2-4 in conference), needing two wins to guarantee a bowl. Remember, one of those wins was over then #6 South Carolina on the road. Their remaining games: Kentucky, @ Tennessee, Wake Forest. Northwestern, before last weekend was 5-4 (2-3 in conference and with a loss to Duke at home), needing 2 wins to guarantee a bowl. Their remaining games: Iowa, Indiana, @ Illinois.

    Something else, the Big 10 isn't done with their cupcake OOC games either. Penn State still has Temple, Iowa still has Western Mich. There's one other tough OOC conference game from the SEC that you missed, too. MSU@WVU.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  16. #105
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    5,350

    Re: Great Day for College Football

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    I know it really doesn't happen anymore, but it comforts me to know that if a George Mason or some other team in a lower-level conference somehow happened to possess the best college basketball team, they can win the NCAA Championship. That can't really happen in football.

    The schedule-strength argument is persuasive, but it's also a self-perpetuating closed system. To pick a school at random out of the dozens, let's take Middle Tennessee State. If MTSU somehow came into a team that could spot the New England Patriots points on a neutral field, they still wouldn't get a chance to play for the BCS title game. "They didn't play anybody," the big schools would say. These are the same big schools that would stop returning MTSU's phone calls as soon as they started getting really good, and MTSU can't join their conference at will. So how exactly would MTSU get a big-boy schedule?

    Over time, a school can pull itself upwards in the caste system. It just takes pace at glacial speed.
    I understand the George Mason argument in basketball but I think comparing hoops and football is apples and oranges. The odds of a George Mason winning it in hoops may be a million to one, but the odds of them winning it in football would be infinity-1 to one (if they even have a program). Let's not forget that basketball has more programs.

    One more thing. These football games ARE settled on the field. That's what makes college football great and why every week is special. It's an ongoing playoff. Granted , you could say that in football only a 65 (BCS schools) of the 119 have a shot at the title, but that's what it is. If a program can evolve and make their way out of 1-AA and into a BCS conference after payinng their dues in the Sun Belt, WAC, or independent (see: UConn) then they have a better shot. And it's not out of the realm of possibility that one of those other 54 non-BCS conference schools has a shot. Boise State last year proved they could get close. The onus is on them, since they are not in a BCS conference, to schedule tougher games pre-conference. If Middle Tennessee State has their goal set on a NC, they need to schedule USC, OSU, Oklahoma, and other power BCS schools and beat them and then run away with their conference. I guarantee you if MTSU beat those schools and then went 8-0 in their conference, they would have a shot.

    Getting back to the hoops argument, if we are going to argue that everyone should have a chance then maybe we should lobby for Findlay and Otterbein to have a chance to be a Cinderella in hoops (look what Findlay did to my Bucks last night - Ouch!), but we don't. Basketball has it's rules splitting up divisions and football does too. There just happens to be 300+ schools with a shot at winning it all in hoops and 65+ in football. But let's be honest, George Mason made it to the Final Four, but were still a longshot to win it all. And they were an 11-seed. So, realistically, there are only 40 or so programs of the 300 in hoops that legitimately have a shot. The same goes for football.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25