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Thread: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

  1. #16
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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    Tough question there. That's giving up a lot of talent, but Kazmir is also one of the top pitchers in all of baseball (IMO), and he's a lefty to boot. But still, I just couldn't give up that much young talent when we'd still be far away from actually contending for a World Series.

    We'd have a great trio of Harang, Kazmir, and Arroyo, but who could we rely on for 4-5? Belisle? Shearn? Maybe Maloney? Not to mention the bullpen is still in shambles. Weathers was solid last year, but can we really expect him to repeat in '08? Who besides Burton can nail down the coffin (so to speak) in the middle-to-late innings?

    Bottom line is, if this team was one stud starter away from greatness, then I'd hesitantly pull the trigger (a la Hanley Ramirez for Josh Beckett). But as it stands, let the young guns come up and produce, hopefully filling two holes for years to come.
    I guess I disagree. I think that as a general policy it's bad to trade young promising players for one year rent-a-player types... but for a guy like Kazmir that has (I think) three years left on his reasonable contract... I don't think that's nearly the same thing. What if we got Kazmir & Bedard (or a comparable duo of pitchers - for the players I mentioned earlier) ... granted we'd have too give up alot ... but then we could buy a closer (which I feel will make the remaining elements of our bullpen fall in line). Who's to say we couldn't contend w/ that... we'd definitely have the best starting rotation in the NL Central ... maybe in baseball ...and the cool thing is that we have the prospects to make it happen NOW!!! Next year, any number of things could happen.... Bailey could suck... Hamilton could come down to earth or continue his injury bad luck... anything could happen in the next year... why not trade them while they're hot and there are "supposedly" the missing pieces that our team needs on the trading block.

    With our starting rotation and bullpen in line... we could start the season and see how our offense works out and if it needs help we could always try to obtain someone before the deadline..... and.... I dunno, I think a playoff run becomes extremely possible... and not in some fairytale ... crazy-optimistic land, but in reality.

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  3. #17
    Boom Goes the Dynamite Screwball's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    Quote Originally Posted by hippie07 View Post
    I guess I disagree. I think that as a general policy it's bad to trade young promising players for one year rent-a-player types... but for a guy like Kazmir that has (I think) three years left on his reasonable contract... I don't think that's nearly the same thing. What if we got Kazmir & Bedard (or a comparable duo of pitchers - for the players I mentioned earlier) ... granted we'd have too give up alot ... but then we could buy a closer (which I feel will make the remaining elements of our bullpen fall in line). Who's to say we couldn't contend w/ that... we'd definitely have the best starting rotation in the NL Central ... maybe in baseball ...and the cool thing is that we have the prospects to make it happen NOW!!! Next year, any number of things could happen.... Bailey could suck... Hamilton could come down to earth or continue his injury bad luck... anything could happen in the next year... why not trade them while they're hot and there are "supposedly" the missing pieces that our team needs on the trading block.

    With our starting rotation and bullpen in line... we could start the season and see how our offense works out and if it needs help we could always try to obtain someone before the deadline..... and.... I dunno, I think a playoff run becomes extremely possible... and not in some fairytale ... crazy-optimistic land, but in reality.
    All reasonable points, which makes the trade ideas so tempting. If there was some hope that the bullpen could be shored up just enough to not sabotage the efforts of the SPs, then go ahead and make it happen. But if there's 1 big knock on Krivsky, it's that he's been abysmal at creating an effective bullpen, despite numerous efforts. It'd be tough to swallow giving up all that young, cheap talent to still have no hardware to show for it.

    Also, my guess is Castellini would have to approve a substantial increase in payroll. Though if he is to be believed, that shouldn't be a problem.

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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    All reasonable points, which makes the trade ideas so tempting. If there was some hope that the bullpen could be shored up just enough to not sabotage the efforts of the SPs, then go ahead and make it happen. But if there's 1 big knock on Krivsky, it's that he's been abysmal at creating an effective bullpen, despite numerous efforts. It'd be tough to swallow giving up all that young, cheap talent to still have no hardware to show for it.

    Also, my guess is Castellini would have to approve a substantial increase in payroll. Though if he is to be believed, that shouldn't be a problem.
    Actually adding Bedard and Kazmir to the payroll wouldnt hurt at all. Bedard made 3.4 million last year I think. He's up for Arb again but I don't think it could jump up too much. And Kazmir is in his first year of Arb so i'm guessing he'd be around 4 million. So most likely those two top end pitchers would cost us around 10-12 million combined for next year.
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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    Quote Originally Posted by mound_patrol View Post
    Actually adding Bedard and Kazmir to the payroll wouldnt hurt at all. Bedard made 3.4 million last year I think. He's up for Arb again but I don't think it could jump up too much. And Kazmir is in his first year of Arb so i'm guessing he'd be around 4 million. So most likely those two top end pitchers would cost us around 10-12 million combined for next year.
    True. However, I meant in later years, assuming of course we signed them to extensions. If I'm giving up the farm, I want the return to be here for several years. That would come at a pretty penny, especially after the first couple seasons.

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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    Quote Originally Posted by mound_patrol View Post
    Actually adding Bedard and Kazmir to the payroll wouldnt hurt at all. Bedard made 3.4 million last year I think. He's up for Arb again but I don't think it could jump up too much. And Kazmir is in his first year of Arb so i'm guessing he'd be around 4 million. So most likely those two top end pitchers would cost us around 10-12 million combined for next year.
    Okay- that's it!! I'm sold! I want Bedard & Kazmir even if we have to "sell the farm" to get them. I mean...whoever it takes from a pool of Hamilton, Votto, Bruce, EdE, Bailey, Cueto, Maloney, Wood... whomever!

    Think of it, we would have potentially the same opening day starters as last year (with the possible exception of EdE) but with an excellent, EXCELLENT starting rotation. Of course we would still need a closer - Cordero? and Voila! Instant contenders.

    I don't think we'd be ruining ourselves here at all because we would have 3 aces locked up for at least 2 or 3 years plus Arroyo. Which gives us time to grow some more pitching prospects. And basically the only things I give WK credit for is his ability to lock up solid pitching w/ LTC and his ability to find quality position players from nowhere (see Phillips & Hamilton). I think we would be fine.... not to mention... CONTENDERS!

    Yeah! Now, if we can only get WK, Tampa Bay and Baltimore to agree...

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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    "He adds that the O's have had preliminary, general extension talks with Bedard. I imagine that if Bedard is looking for the $18-20MM per year he could get on the open market, the O's will choose to trade him".

    I quoted this from mlbtraderumors.com. It is important to remember that for now both Bedard and Kazmir are cheap, they can both expect to be paid really well in the future.. So we would probably have a 3 year window in which we could expect the Reds to contend for the playoffs and try to make the World Series with these two pitchers. I am sure all of this will be on Wayne's mind before he tries to make a trade of this magnitude.

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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    I like the idea of Bedard more than Kazmir, for the mere fact we, more than likely, keep our pitching prospects. I hate parting with Bailey AND Cueto...if we could swing a deal with TB that only included one of them, then I do it...yesterday.

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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    Tough question there. That's giving up a lot of talent, but Kazmir is also one of the top pitchers in all of baseball (IMO), and he's a lefty to boot. But still, I just couldn't give up that much young talent when we'd still be far away from actually contending for a World Series.

    We'd have a great trio of Harang, Kazmir, and Arroyo, but who could we rely on for 4-5? Belisle? Shearn? Maybe Maloney? Not to mention the bullpen is still in shambles. Weathers was solid last year, but can we really expect him to repeat in '08? Who besides Burton can nail down the coffin (so to speak) in the middle-to-late innings?

    Bottom line is, if this team was one stud starter away from greatness, then I'd hesitantly pull the trigger (a la Hanley Ramirez for Josh Beckett). But as it stands, let the young guns come up and produce, hopefully filling two holes for years to come.
    My only problem with this is by the time Bailey and Cueto are up and producing like they are supposed to, it's gonna be 2009 or 2010 (at least). At that point the contracts of Harang and Arroyo will be ending. If you do Bailey and Cueto for Kazmir you've got Harang-Kazmir-Arroyo locked up for the next three seasons. That is one hell of a start to a playoff team, and it gives us three seasons to put the pieces around them. Our offensive prospects like Bruce and Votto are ready to produce during those three seasons. If we swing a trade like this suddenly I wouldn't mind spending $40M on a Silva or Lohse, even knowing he is only a #4. Go with Harang, Kazmir, Arroyo, Lohse, Belisle, and we had to trade none of our offense to get that rotation. It'd be one of the best in the NL. Sign a couple of bullpenners and this team is ready.

    So I agree with hippie07 - I'd do Bailey and Cueto for Kazmir, provided Castellini was ready to spend a bit to make us a legit contender. From his comments, I think he is. Make that trade, tack on $15M to the payroll and the Reds would be an immediate contender.

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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    Don't see it happening, but if it did, we'd blow our weak division away.
    Who's on first?

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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    This was asked in an ESPN chat with BA's Jim Callis

    Ben (Centerville, OH): Would a package of Josh Hamilton, Edwin Encarnacion, and Johnny Cueto be enough to trade for Eric Bedard?

    Jim Callis: I would think so. I like Bedard, but I'd do that if I were the Orioles.

    FYI, this was also asked:

    Brian (NJ): Cueto,Henry Sosa, Cahill or Mulvey?

    Jim Callis: Johnny Cueto.
    Last edited by HalMorrisRules; 11-06-2007 at 10:50 AM.

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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    Quote Originally Posted by HalMorrisRules View Post
    This was asked in an ESPN chat with BA's Jim Callis

    Ben (Centerville, OH): Would a package of Josh Hamilton, Edwin Encarnacion, and Johnny Cueto be enough to trade for Eric Bedard?

    Jim Callis: I would think so. I like Bedard, but I'd do that if I were the Orioles.

    FYI, this was also asked:

    Brian (NJ): Cueto,Henry Sosa, Cahill or Mulvey?

    Jim Callis: Johnny Cueto.
    That trade would hurt, but I think if we did it - it would have to be dependent on BCast putting his money where his mouth is and spending some $$$. I think a combination of this, signing of a CFer (Hunter?) and signing of a closer. Plus, possibly the signing of some incentive-laden contracts (Prior?/Clement?). This scenario would straighten us out, IMO.

    Rotation: Harang, Bedard, Arroyo, Bailey, Belisle/or whoever wins out w/ the other signees.

    Do you think this would be enough to make us competitive? I'd still rather have Bedard & Kazmir ... but I'll take one rather than none

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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    Quote Originally Posted by HalMorrisRules View Post
    This was asked in an ESPN chat with BA's Jim Callis

    Ben (Centerville, OH): Would a package of Josh Hamilton, Edwin Encarnacion, and Johnny Cueto be enough to trade for Eric Bedard?

    Jim Callis: I would think so. I like Bedard, but I'd do that if I were the Orioles.
    So if we did that trade, we play Keppinger at 3B, and bring up Bruce for CF?

    Could we get Kazmir for Bailey? Or would we need to trade more?
    Who's on first?

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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    If there is anyway in the world that we could get both of these guys, as unrealistic as it sounds, I'd be very happy. I'd imagine that it would take Hamilton, Votto, and Cueto to get it done for Erik Bedard, and I'd probably do that deal. For Kazmir, the Rays would probably bite on Bailey, Wood, and Maloney as a package, and I would strongly consider that as well. Yeah, these deals would pretty much drain our farm as far as pitching prospects go, but could you imagine these guys as our top four in the rotation?:

    Bedard
    Harang
    Kazmir
    Arroyo

    Jeez, with those guys we wouldn't even need a 5th starter. If we want to get some pitching prospects to re-stock our farm for that area, would the Yankees consider an Encarnacion for Ian Kennedy and Alan Horne deal? Now, find me a strong defensive centerfielder (let's keep Bruce in AAA for a year and let him replace Junior after 2008) and a couple guys for the bullpen (Kerry Wood with Iwase as our closer sound pretty good to me), and we would be golden.
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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    Ah the smell of the Hot Stove...

    It would be fantastic to see Bedard or Kazmir donning the Red next year.

    I would hope that Castellini wouldn't drop 10 mil on a questionable and add nothing to help his already disliked 10 million dollar investment out.

    Landing a top pitcher for a some of the farm and landing a couple solid bullpenners makes us a contender. I just hope we can hold on to Bruce and Votto. I have a completely irrational soft spot for our home grown monsters.

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    Re: Eric Bedard and Scott Kazmir on the Trade Market

    Quote Originally Posted by ChatterRed View Post
    Could we get Kazmir for Bailey? Or would we need to trade more?
    I don't think just Bailey would be enough. Odds are Bailey is never going to be as good as Kazmir is right now (and that's not a knock against Homer). If they would do a Bailey-Kazmir swap, I would do it in a heartbeat. They'd probably want Bailey and Cueto which is an awful lot. If you could talk TB into Bailey + a lesser pitching prospect (e.g. Wood, Watson) I would do that as well.


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