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Thread: Gold Glove winners

  1. #31
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Chase Utley a better defender than Brandon Phillips? Opinion or not, how do you come to that conclusion?
    IMO, BP is the best.

    Leads the league in chances and fielding percentage. That's sick. That'd be like saying Ichiro is not the batting champ when he leads the league in PA and Avg. I know for fact that errors don't tell half the story, but BP was phenomenal. Chutley and O-Dog are great defensively, but neither had the year BP did.

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  3. #32
    You're being very UnDude. sonny's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    BP willl get his. Kudos to Hudson for his BP comment (if in fact it was made). There are a few gentlemen left in the sport.
    Witty signature.

  4. #33
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    Phillips is good but not the best IMO. Hudson is the right choice. He's performed at a very high level defensively, year in and year out, and IMO, his injury doesn't change that he was the best fielding 2nd baseman this season.

    After Hudson, Phillips is seemingly as good a choice as any.

  5. #34
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    I've always believed that the main ingredient in the Gold Glove is wood.
    Last edited by Ron Madden; 11-07-2007 at 03:46 AM.

  6. #35
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    Quote Originally Posted by sonny View Post
    BP willl get his. Kudos to Hudson for his BP comment (if in fact it was made). There are a few gentlemen left in the sport.
    It helps when they're buddies, which those two are.

  7. #36
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    A Mets columnist's take on the Gold Glove award:

    Even Corny the Mets fan dropped his jaw when I told him Wright was a Gold Glove winner.

    "What!" he said, with his usual low-key persona. "There isn't a better fielding third baseman in the National League?"

    Apparently not. Or at least the coaches or managers in the National League thought so. Just remember, the American League voted Rafael Palmeiro, an almost everyday designated hitter, a Gold Glove after playing about 20 games in the field.

    At least Wright had a gold glove. Unfortunately, he also had a lead arm.

    How many times last season, even a few when the Mets were choking away their NL East lead, did Wright make a highlight-film stop, only to make so many wild throws to first that Keith Olbermann's mother started having Chuck Knoblauch nightmares again.

    So how did Wright win? Mostly by default. St. Louis' Scott Rolen, who had won seven of the past nine, and Atlanta's Chipper Jones were injured too much. Ryan Zimmerman of the Nationals, Wright's boyhood friend in Virginia, had 23 errors in 59 more chances in 1,431 2/3 innings, the most by an NL third baseman. Wright committed 21 errors, 11 on throws, in 1,418 1/3 innings.

    Unlike Carlos Beltran, who won a second straight Gold Glove in center field, Wright was not a clear-cut choice. Some day, possibly in the near future, he will be. Some day he'll win another Gold Glove and deserve it.

    For now, however, Corny the Mets fan scratches his head in disbelief.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  8. #37
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    Comparison

    Total chances: Phillips 782, Hudson 655
    Errors: Phillips 8, Hudson 10
    Field %: Phillips .990, Hudson .985
    Zone Rating: Phillips 8.10, Hudson 8.14
    Range Factor: 5.08, Phillips 4.91
    Double Plays: Phillips 113, Hudson 96

  9. #38
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    The Fielding Bible had Phillips at #4 in Plus/Minus in the NL behind Utley, Hudson, and Matsui. He finished 3rd overall in the voting though.

  10. #39
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/

    Third Base ATG
    November 9th, 2007

    Gold Glove (NL): David Wright
    Gold Glove (AL): Adrian Beltre
    Fielding Bible: Pedro Feliz

    People are in love, I think, with the idea of the all-round player (and by the way, is it “all-round” or “all-around?” I always assumed it was “all-around player” — that makes more sense to me — but the editors at the newspaper, who know a heck of a lot more about this stuff than I do, keep changing it to “all-round player”).

    Think about how many times over the years as a sports fan have you heard a manager or coach say something like this: “Joe Bob Bobby is a great player. But he’s an even better person.”

    Well, you know what? I’m calling total BS on that whole “better person” thing. If Joe Bob Bobby is, say, an all-star Major Leaguer, that would mean he’s one of the, oh, 50 or 60 best baseball players in America. That would place him in the top .0000002 percent of all players in this country.

    There is NO way that Joe Bob Bobby is one of the top .0000002 percent of people in this great land of ours. I mean NO chance. We’ve got veterans who have fought for this country, fire fighters and police officers and numerous others who risk their lives, volunteers who work in soup kitchens 60 hours a week, researchers who work day and night to cure dreaded diseases, teachers who give entirely of themselves (I see these people in the movies all the time), citizens who dedicate their lives to expose wrongs and make this world a better place, the guy who fixed my Mac when it broke and so on. I realize I’m taking the quote a few steps too far but I can’t help it — I’m so sick of hearing that. He’s not a better person than he is a player. He’s just not. He may be a perfectly fine person. She may be better than an average person. He or she may be the kind of person you would want your child to marry.

    But stop with the “better person than player” quote. Just stop. STOP. Arthur Ashe may have been a better person than athlete. Maybe. Roberto Clemente might be in the conversation. Maybe. That’s where it ends.

    Sorry. I had no idea how strongly I felt about that until I started writing.

    Anyway, we’re in love with that concept of the all-round player, the all-round great person, and I think that’s why David Wright won the Gold Glove this year. This is not to say Wright is a bad choice — no, he’s a fine fielder. The Fielding Bible folks ranked him seventh in baseball, which is quite good.

    But is he really better than Pedro Feliz defensively? I don’t think so.

    Feliz scored a +27 on the Dewan Scale, best among third basemen.
    Wright scored a +13, which ranked him sixth.

    Feliz had a 2.91 fielding range, fifth in baseball.
    Wright had a 2.73 fielding range, 11th in baseball.

    Feliz had a .852 zone rating, best in baseball.
    Wright had a .771 zone rating, 11th in baseball.

    Feliz made 46 good fielding plays according to Dewan (second behind Ryan Zimmerman)
    Wright made 44 good field plays (fourth behind Zim, Feliz and Alex Gordon).

    Feliz had only 11 defensive misplays (sort of the opposite of he good fielding plays) which was the best among every day third basemen.
    Wright made 20 defensive misplays, middle of the pack.

    And so on. Plus Feliz is such a liability as a hitter — I mean a .290 on-base percentage, that flat kills you — that you KNOW he has to be great defensively. Otherwise he would be on the bench.

    We trust offensive statistics enough to know, without a doubt, that David Wright (.325/.416/.546, 30 homers, 117 RBIs) was a better hitter than Pedro Feliz (.253/.290/.418, 20 homers, 72 RBIs). We don’t yet trust defensive stats to that degree — and maybe that’s because defensive stats are not nearly as complete or as comprehensive. Still, I think the stats clearly point to Feliz being quit a bit better than David Wright in the field.

    Again, I think it goes back to our love of the all-round — managers and fans WANT David Wright to be the best defensive third baseman in the NL. It fits the super hero role — he hits, he hits with power, he steals bases, and what do you know? He’s also the best defensive third baseman! Really! This also might help explain why Jeter won Gold Gloves and Dave Winfield and other big stars.

    Let’s face it. It’s a lot more fun to vote for David Wright than to vote for Pedro Feliz.

    Adrian Beltre, in my opinion, won the Gold Glove one year too late. He was terrific in 2006 — best in the game. He was merely good in 2007. Brandon Inge (+20) in my opinion was significantly better than Beltre (+5) this year

  11. #40
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    That's a good write up that just about sums up the GG award.

  12. #41
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    That's a good write up that just about sums up the GG award.

    Yep. And it just goes to show that managers and coaches don't have any greater insight of the game than sportswriters, fans or players.
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  13. #42
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    Comparison

    Total chances: Phillips 782, Hudson 655
    Errors: Phillips 8, Hudson 10
    Field %: Phillips .990, Hudson .985
    Zone Rating: Phillips 8.10, Hudson 8.14
    Range Factor: 5.08, Phillips 4.91
    Double Plays: Phillips 113, Hudson 96
    Comparison:

    dewan's +/-: Hudson +20; Phillips +11
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #43
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    Dave Pinto just posted his PMR numbers for 2B... guess who's way out ahead of the pack?

    http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023941.php

    Ratio is the column you want to look at. It's the ratio of the observed Defensive Efficiency Rating vs the Predicted Defensive Efficiency Rating based on the balls the player could have fielded.

    Code:
    Player (Top 10)		In Play Outs	POuts 	DER 	PDER 	Ratio
    Brandon Phillips	4288	488	442.09	0.114	0.103	110.38
    Chase Utley		3571	410	386.97	0.115	0.108	105.95
    Jose Valentin		1123	154	145.56	0.137	0.130	105.80
    Orlando Hudson		3552	435	412.20	0.122	0.116	105.53
    Esteban German		1248	117	111.06	0.094	0.089	105.35
    Ian Kinsler		3581	459	438.84	0.128	0.123	104.59
    Ronnie Belliard		3168	337	322.49	0.106	0.102	104.50
    Robinson Cano		4380	532	509.76	0.121	0.116	104.36
    Josh Barfield		3237	396	381.63	0.122	0.118	103.76
    Mark Ellis		4119	561	540.88	0.136	0.131	103.72
    
    Player (Bottom 10) 	In Play Outs	POuts 	DER 	PDER 	Ratio
    Felipe Lopez		1208	129 	134.76	0.107	0.112	95.72
    Jeff Kent		3237	355	372.41	0.110	0.115	95.33
    Mark DeRosa		2056	223	234.54	0.108	0.114	95.08
    Marcus Giles		2883	364	383.01	0.126	0.133	95.04
    Aaron Miles		1834	183	194.00	0.100	0.106	94.33
    Dan Uggla		4310	438	466.30	0.102	0.108	93.93
    Rickie Weeks		3003	301	320.45	0.100	0.107	93.93
    Ray Durham		3183	320	343.81	0.101	0.108	93.08
    Craig Biggio		2878	283	308.32	0.098	0.107	91.79
    Brendan Harris		1206	110	124.59	0.091	0.103	88.29
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 11-12-2007 at 11:43 AM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  15. #44
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Gold Glove winners

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Dave Pinto just posted his PMR numbers for 2B... guess who's way out ahead of the pack?
    Man, defensive numbers are a wild and woolly frontier.

    B.J. Upton rated pretty well in PMR, 13th overall at 103.04. If Pinto's right (and I'm not saying he is) the D-Rays ought to give serious thought to keeping him at 2B.
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