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Thread: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

  1. #16
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    The issue is not the $15M nearly as much as the likelihood that his performance will degrade significantly over the life of the contract. For a guy soon to be 33 a 5 year deal for that amount of money looks high risk/low reward.
    Last edited by flyer85; 11-08-2007 at 01:24 PM.
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  3. #17
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Another offseason is upon us, as we laugh at all the other teams paying crazy amounts of money for the better FAs. I can't wait for the smarter FA signings that Wayne is known for. The Stantons and Gonzalezes. Those are the smart moves.

    Just because you think that a contract is "bad" doesn't make it such. Damon makes $13 million? It's called market value. This board was in hysterics last season when Meche, Lilly and Marquis were signed. If the market says Hunter is worth that much, then that's what he's worth.

    I think our perception is skewed because the Reds are one of the teams who think people are worth 2002 salaries. Times have changed. $15 million isn't that much when you want to win.
    15 Million isn't that much if you want to win, but its a lot when a player isn't worth it. As for Stanton being lumped with Gonzalez, how does that work? Gonzalez was a positive contributor to this team, while Stanton did nothing but hurt the team.

    I disagree that just because a team pays something for a player means he is worth that much. It just means his agent found a stupid GM or something unforeseen happened that caused his production to fall off. If Torii Hunter replicates his 2007 season exactly next year, he might be worth 15 million, but is he going to do that for 5 more years? Its very doubtful.

  4. #18
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Wow...this is friggin scary.
    they have to find talent and then keep them through their productive years. The deals to especially Harang and Arroyo are good signs that things are moving in the right direction in that regard.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  5. #19
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    The Reds don't allocate a ton of money to the draft.

    The Reds don't allocate a ton of money to the intl FA market.

    The Reds don't get involved in the mid to high FA market.

    Wow...this is friggin scary.
    The Reds spend money in the draft.... they may not spend with the Yankees and the Red Sox, but they spend with a lot of other teams.....

    As for the international FA market.... I don't know if you mean 16 and 17 year old kids, or Japanese pro's.... but plenty of young international guys signed for cheap, its all about finding the right guys and teaching them the right things.

  6. #20
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Reds are never going to outspend the opposition. They have to work more intelligently and effectively to be able to compete.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    15 Million isn't that much if you want to win, but its a lot when a player isn't worth it. As for Stanton being lumped with Gonzalez, how does that work? Gonzalez was a positive contributor to this team, while Stanton did nothing but hurt the team.

    I disagree that just because a team pays something for a player means he is worth that much. It just means his agent found a stupid GM or something unforeseen happened that caused his production to fall off. If Torii Hunter replicates his 2007 season exactly next year, he might be worth 15 million, but is he going to do that for 5 more years? Its very doubtful.
    As other teams somehow find the way to pay for these guys, the Reds sit on the sidelines.

    I agree to an extent. If one team pays and absurd amt for one player on a one off basis, that doesn't make him worth it. But when it starts to become a trend, it becomes a little troubling. If salaries are on the rise, then it isn't stupid GMs any more. The teams not keeping up with the market are stupid.

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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    $15 million isn't that much when you want to win.
    Provided it's paid to someone who could actually help you win.

    At this point, is there any dramatic difference between Hunter and Hamilton in centerfield defensively? It's looking like Hamilton has more offensive upside. Why commit $15M/yr for 5 years when you already control a guy who can likely give you the same thing in year one and certainly will outperform the free agent over the course of the contract?

    Basically whomever signs Hunter will be paying him top dollar to decline.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  9. #23
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    Reds are never going to outspend the opposition. They have to work more intelligently and effectively to be able to compete.
    Not outspend, but at least get in the ballpark. If they are going to continuously make their big acquisitions after the rest of the teams have already filled out their rosters, then it is time to pack it in.

    Either that or start building from the farm system. Drop $10 million into next year's draft. Outbid people on the big name intl FAs.

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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    If salaries are on the rise, then it isn't stupid GMs any more. The teams not keeping up with the market are stupid.
    its supply and demand. Its lots of $$ chasing minimal production. The free agent market is mostly bereft of production. A team with a limited budget would be prudent to find a different way to address their issues rather than joining the crowd because the ROI is likely to be very LOW. The winning small market franchises will be the ones that pay for real production.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  11. #25
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Not outspend, but at least get in the ballpark. If they are going to continuously make their big acquisitions after the rest of the teams have already filled out their rosters, then it is time to pack it in.

    Either that or start building from the farm system. Drop $10 million into next year's draft. Outbid people on the big name intl FAs.
    How many big name international free agents pan out compared to ones that flop?

    As for 'start building the farm system'.... the Reds have one of the 5 best systems in baseball right now. They will be building through the farm system.

  12. #26
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Provided it's paid to someone who could actually help you win.

    At this point, is there any dramatic difference between Hunter and Hamilton in centerfield defensively? It's looking like Hamilton has more offensive upside. Why commit $15M/yr for 5 years when you already control a guy who can likely give you the same thing in year one and certainly will outperform the free agent over the course of the contract?

    Basically whomever signs Hunter will be paying him top dollar to decline.
    So a "recovered" crack addict with 300 ABs above single A ball has more offensive upside? One who benefits from playing in GABP and can't hit LHPs to save his life?

    This offseason is gonna be so much fun. WK is going to be praised for staying on the sidelines once again while the rest of the teams go whizzing by the Reds.

    Ted Lilly was an awful contract. Meche was a joke. Carlos Lee was a disaster. Soriano, Marquis, Speier were all overpaid.

    Woo hoo.

  13. #27
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Ah, the inefficiencies in the MLB player's market continue to rear their ugly head. If more teams used stock market principles in valuing players...

  14. #28
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    As for 'start building the farm system'.... the Reds have one of the 5 best systems in baseball right now. They will be building through the farm system.
    Is that really true?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #29
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    How many big name international free agents pan out compared to ones that flop?

    As for 'start building the farm system'.... the Reds have one of the 5 best systems in baseball right now. They will be building through the farm system.
    Thanks to previous regimes, they have some great players in the farm.

    Have they acquired a top 50 prospect since Krivsky took over? How about top 100?

  16. #30
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Is that really true?
    Yes, it is. Granted its strongly bolstered by the top 4, but the depth is there.


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