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Thread: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

  1. #31
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Isn't 5/75 supposedly the offer Hunter turned down from the Twins?
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  3. #32
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Thanks to previous regimes, they have some great players in the farm.

    Have they acquired a top 50 prospect since Krivsky took over? How about top 100?
    I have seen publications that ranked Stubbs as such.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  4. #33
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Thanks to previous regimes, they have some great players in the farm.

    Have they acquired a top 50 prospect since Krivsky took over? How about top 100?
    Yes. Stubbs was a BA Top 100 player last year. Todd Frazier is likely a Top 100 player as well. I would bet both crack the top 100 this year, and if Stubbs doesn't he will be in the next 10. One thing that this regime has done is add some very good depth to the system, although they haven't added the impact type players just yet, although that guy could step forward next year for all we know. Who was Johnny Cueto 2 years ago other than some kid with 43 innings in the GCL with an ERA of 5 that no one really paid much attention to.

  5. #34
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Ah, the inefficiencies in the MLB player's market continue to rear their ugly head. If more teams used stock market principles in valuing players...
    as Depodesta has pointed, baseball has a huge inefficiency in the middle ... but it doesn't seem to discourage most from a willingness to repeat failure.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  6. #35
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    As for 'start building the farm system'.... the Reds have one of the 5 best systems in baseball right now. They will be building through the farm system.
    The Reds are too thin for my tastes to rank them in the top 5 (I'm sure they might rank there in some circles, but depth often succeeds where glitz fails).

    As for the last sentence, like any team the Reds had better be pulling in players from numerous precincts if they want to be a winning franchise. More specifically, if the Reds are going to attempt to go for it solely with what's in house, then I expect more 90-loss seasons in their immediate future.

    With any feeder system, you need to choose who's part of the foundation and who can get you what you need to fill in around that foundation. They aren't all going to pan out and getting ahead of that curve is critical for a team with limited resources. Some top prospects should be dealt. It's just a matter of figuring out which ones.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  7. #36
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    I have seen publications that ranked Stubbs as such.
    I can't see him being there after this season. Maybe last year, when his draft spot was still carrying him.

  8. #37
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I can't see him being there after this season. Maybe last year, when his draft spot was still carrying him.
    Yeah, because his cieling somehow was lowered despite making advancements in his game....

    how does that work?

  9. #38
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yes. Stubbs was a BA Top 100 player last year. Todd Frazier is likely a Top 100 player as well. I would bet both crack the top 100 this year, and if Stubbs doesn't he will be in the next 10. One thing that this regime has done is add some very good depth to the system, although they haven't added the impact type players just yet, although that guy could step forward next year for all we know. Who was Johnny Cueto 2 years ago other than some kid with 43 innings in the GCL with an ERA of 5 that no one really paid much attention to.
    And Frazier and Stubbs could both flame out next year. Dealing in the now, this regime hasn't done much for the farm system, especially in them being considered a top 5 system.

  10. #39
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Ted Lilly was an awful contract. Meche was a joke. Carlos Lee was a disaster. Soriano, Marquis, Speier were all overpaid.

    Woo hoo.
    If you're going to rail against the argument, at least characterize it correctly.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  11. #40
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    The Reds are too thin for my tastes to rank them in the top 5 (I'm sure they might rank there in some circles, but depth often succeeds where glitz fails).

    As for the last sentence, like any team the Reds had better be pulling in players from numerous precincts if they want to be a winning franchise. More specifically, if the Reds are going to attempt to go for it solely with what's in house, then I expect more 90-loss seasons in their immediate future.

    With any feeder system, you need to choose who's part of the foundation and who can get you what you need to fill in around that foundation. They aren't all going to pan out and getting ahead of that curve is critical for a team with limited resources. Some top prospects should be dealt. It's just a matter of figuring out which ones.
    Oh, I surely didn't mean that was the only place the Reds would be getting talent. No one can build like that and win like you said. As for figuring out which prospects to trade, I would trade Votto before any of the other 'big 4' and its not really close.

  12. #41
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yeah, because his cieling somehow was lowered despite making advancements in his game....

    how does that work?
    Making advancements? If he didn't make advancements, he wouldn't have been a top 500 player.

    He was playing with HS kids and 40th round draft picks. He has a couple of good months in Low A. Hooray.

  13. #42
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    With any feeder system, you need to choose who's part of the foundation and who can get you what you need to fill in around that foundation. They aren't all going to pan out and getting ahead of that curve is critical for a team with limited resources. Some top prospects should be dealt. It's just a matter of figuring out which ones.
    This is a very important point. While you obviously will realize value from that top X% of prospects who go on to contribute to your organization, you should try to realize as much value as possible from those prospects who don't.

    There's no reason to let a Brandon Larson rot away without giving him either sufficient opportunity to completely fail or trading him way before the bloom is off the rose.

    Turning away B prospects for real contributors has been a hallmark of the Braves for the last 15 years. Sure, sometimes you'll end up trading away guys who return more value than you gain (like the Pierzynski trade), but often you get something for nothing.

    You can stockpile as much depth as you want, but at the end of the day, the goal has to be maximizing the value on the 25 man roster. It's a balancing act, for sure, but depth in and of itself isn't necessarily a virtue.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. #43
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    If you're going to rail against the argument, at least characterize it correctly.
    No clue what you are talking about.

  15. #44
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    And Frazier and Stubbs could both flame out next year. Dealing in the now, this regime hasn't done much for the farm system, especially in them being considered a top 5 system.
    They could very well do that... or they could vault themselves into AA and AAA and be top 20 prospects in baseball. We don't know what they are going to do in the future right now. Heck, Kyle Lotzkar could go absolutely Clayton Kershaw like on the MWL at age 18 next year and be a top 15 prospect himself..... I think Dano's regime did a better job at acquiring top end talent with Bruce and Bailey, but that doesn't mean this regime hasn't done a good job either.

  16. #45
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: White Sox to Offer Largest Deal in Team History to Torii Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    This is a very important point. While you obviously will realize value from that top X% of prospects who go on to contribute to your organization, you should try to realize as much value as possible from those prospects who don't.

    There's no reason to let a Brandon Larson rot away without giving him either sufficient opportunity to completely fail or trading him way before the bloom is off the rose.

    Turning away B prospects for real contributors has been a hallmark of the Braves for the last 15 years. Sure, sometimes you'll end up trading away guys who return more value than you gain (like the Pierzynski trade), but often you get something for nothing.

    You can stockpile as much depth as you want, but at the end of the day, the goal has to be maximizing the value on the 25 man roster. It's a balancing act, for sure, but depth in and of itself isn't necessarily a virtue.
    The Reds have done some decent moves by turning Jeff Stevens (who did dominate out of the bullpen in the minors this year) and Zach Ward into Brandon Phillips and Kyle Lohse. We also moved Brandon Roberts for Castro (I think).... not that we should have, but the current guys have moved minor leaguers for solid contributors to the team. They have held onto their top talent over the same time as well.


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