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Thread: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

  1. #1
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    Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    Is it just me or does it seem like every team(including the Royals and Rays)have made noise this winter so far except the Reds.I mean yeah sure the Reds hired Dusty Baker but nothing on the player front so far.I mean not even a whisper of a trade rumor or a free agent signing.With all the players out there right now that could be had there should be some noise on the Reds front.Next is what I think the Reds should try to do this winter.

    Firt off trade for M Cabrera from the MArlins.Sure he will cost a lot but this franchise needs a player like Miggy.He could be had for a hefty price but i think the Reds need to try and oull the trigger.Maybe send EE or Votto(there choice the one that stays plays first),Cueto,Burton,Belisle,and Stubbs to the Marlins for Miggy.This maybe enough to pry him away.If not you may have to offer some other package but I would try to get Miggy on the Reds team.

    Next I would sign Gagne to a 2 year 10 million contract with a option for 2010 worth 9 mil.This would give the Reds a reliable closer who would go back to be a All Star closer in the NL.

    Then I would trade for Jon Garland from the White Sox.Send them Wood,Valiha,(spelling not sure if this is correct)and either Hopper or Keppinger there choice.This would give Cincy a good #3 starter behind the big 2.

    I would also sign Jon Leiber to a 2 year 8 mil. deal to be either the 4th or 5th starter.Either behind or in front of Baliey.HE would be a great guy to help teach Bailey and a great club house guy.We could get a slightly above 500 pitcher to fill in a hole with Leiber.

    Then I sign David Riske to be in the bullpen and replace Burton.Probably around 10 mil for 3 years.Let him or Wethers be the setup man.He would be a great addition to the Reds pen.

    Then I would (get ready this is a little out of left field) sign Paul Loduca to a 2 yr 8/10 mil. deal.The Reds need a good defensive catcher who can handle a bat.Sure he doesnt have the power Ross does but he is a better overall catcher>he is still worth 5 or 6 mil a year for what he does with the pitching staff and bat.

    So lets look at what the lineup would be with these trades and signings.
    1)LoDuca-C 4 mil.
    2)Phillips-2B probably around 3 mil.
    3)JR-RF 9Mil.
    4)Miggy-3B 8 mil.
    5)Dunn-LF 13 mil.
    6)Hamilton-CF 1 mil.
    7)Votto or EE- around 1 or 2 mil.
    8)Gonzo-SS 4 mil.

    SP
    1)Harang- I think he is the 8 or 9 mil range next year.
    2)Arroyo- hes around the same as Harang I think.
    3)Jon Garland- The Reds pay around 5 mil. or his salary.
    4)Bailey- 1mil. or so
    5)Leiber- 4 mil.

    BP
    CL-Gagne 5 mil.
    setup-Wethers- 3 mil.
    setup- Riske- 3 mil.
    Lefty-Stanton -2 mil.
    lefty- Bray-1mil.
    righty-magic man 1 mil.
    righty- Macbeth 1 mil.

    Bench
    IN-Hatteberg
    IN-Cantu
    C-Valentin
    OF-FA or MInor leauger
    OF-same as above

    Now that looks like a solid playoff contending 25 man roster if I do say so.So if Mr. Bob does raise the payroll like has been reported this roster could work out.Its around 85/87 mil.Now I know that its probably not going to raise that much but its fun to play with the Fa and trade possibiltys.But I thin if we some how get a lineup close to this the Reds will be in the playoffs next season.What do ya think.Thanks for reading.

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  3. #2
    Recovering Cubs Fan
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    Yeah, and how come they haven't signed A-Rod yet? What's the big holdup? Jeez.
    FIRE DUSTY Never mind. The man is clearly a genius.

  4. #3
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    A. Where is Jon Coutlangus?

    B. Paul Lo Duca is NOT worth $4 million when we have David Ross for $2 million. Ross is better defensively and about the same offensively.

    C. Instead of some of the prospects you mentioned, we should try to move Matt Maloney while his value is high, and because he doesn't fit in with GABP.

    D. Most of those moves are best-case scenarios and therefore unrealistic...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  5. #4
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    Quote Originally Posted by fewfirstchoice View Post
    Is it just me or does it seem like every team(including the Royals and Rays)have made noise this winter so far except the Reds.I mean yeah sure the Reds hired Dusty Baker but nothing on the player front so far.I mean not even a whisper of a trade rumor or a free agent signing.With all the players out there right now that could be had there should be some noise on the Reds front.Next is what I think the Reds should try to do this winter.

    Firt off trade for M Cabrera from the MArlins.Sure he will cost a lot but this franchise needs a player like Miggy.He could be had for a hefty price but i think the Reds need to try and oull the trigger.Maybe send EE or Votto(there choice the one that stays plays first),Cueto,Burton,Belisle,and Stubbs to the Marlins for Miggy.This maybe enough to pry him away.If not you may have to offer some other package but I would try to get Miggy on the Reds team.

    Next I would sign Gagne to a 2 year 10 million contract with a option for 2010 worth 9 mil.This would give the Reds a reliable closer who would go back to be a All Star closer in the NL.

    Then I would trade for Jon Garland from the White Sox.Send them Wood,Valiha,(spelling not sure if this is correct)and either Hopper or Keppinger there choice.This would give Cincy a good #3 starter behind the big 2.

    I would also sign Jon Leiber to a 2 year 8 mil. deal to be either the 4th or 5th starter.Either behind or in front of Baliey.HE would be a great guy to help teach Bailey and a great club house guy.We could get a slightly above 500 pitcher to fill in a hole with Leiber.

    Then I sign David Riske to be in the bullpen and replace Burton.Probably around 10 mil for 3 years.Let him or Wethers be the setup man.He would be a great addition to the Reds pen.

    Then I would (get ready this is a little out of left field) sign Paul Loduca to a 2 yr 8/10 mil. deal.The Reds need a good defensive catcher who can handle a bat.Sure he doesnt have the power Ross does but he is a better overall catcher>he is still worth 5 or 6 mil a year for what he does with the pitching staff and bat.

    So lets look at what the lineup would be with these trades and signings.
    1)LoDuca-C 4 mil.
    2)Phillips-2B probably around 3 mil.
    3)JR-RF 9Mil.
    4)Miggy-3B 8 mil.
    5)Dunn-LF 13 mil.
    6)Hamilton-CF 1 mil.
    7)Votto or EE- around 1 or 2 mil.
    8)Gonzo-SS 4 mil.

    SP
    1)Harang- I think he is the 8 or 9 mil range next year.
    2)Arroyo- hes around the same as Harang I think.
    3)Jon Garland- The Reds pay around 5 mil. or his salary.
    4)Bailey- 1mil. or so
    5)Leiber- 4 mil.

    BP
    CL-Gagne 5 mil.
    setup-Wethers- 3 mil.
    setup- Riske- 3 mil.
    Lefty-Stanton -2 mil.
    lefty- Bray-1mil.
    righty-magic man 1 mil.
    righty- Macbeth 1 mil.

    Bench
    IN-Hatteberg
    IN-Cantu
    C-Valentin
    OF-FA or MInor leauger
    OF-same as above

    Now that looks like a solid playoff contending 25 man roster if I do say so.So if Mr. Bob does raise the payroll like has been reported this roster could work out.Its around 85/87 mil.Now I know that its probably not going to raise that much but its fun to play with the Fa and trade possibiltys.But I thin if we some how get a lineup close to this the Reds will be in the playoffs next season.What do ya think.Thanks for reading.
    I'm sorry...but those trade scenarios are absolutely absurd. Don't blast the Reds for not making a move then spout off your "Fantasyland Trades" that they should have made. By the way, I'm of the opinion of...if the right move isn't there you don't make a move just to make one. As much as some like to think...putting together a winning franchise can't be done in a week.

  6. #5
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    it's just you
    Reds fan since 1970

  7. #6
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    Let's wait until free agency actually becomes active on Monday and /or the Winter Meetings are over to blast the Reds for not doing anything.

  8. #7
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Chi-Town Red View Post
    it's just you
    My thoughts exactly. Are you sure you're not Jim Bowden?
    Who's on first?

  9. #8
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    Let's wait until free agency actually becomes active on Monday and /or the Winter Meetings are over to blast the Reds for not doing anything.
    I agree. Those are excellent moves if you're playing a videogame. Not many teams have done much as of yet. What are we, two maybe three weeks into the offseason? I know the Reds didn't do much of anything last offseason, but we still have several months to go. Be patient and optimistic. The Dusty Baker hiring may turn out to be a bust, but it seems that what Mr. Castellini wants to do is win and if they decided to spend the amount of money they spent to get Baker, what's to say they won't do the same with free agents and trades.
    "Six outs to a full inning. In a major league game, you're going to play 8 or 9 innings. That is never going to change. The money changes. People change. But the game itself is never going to change. The people who designed this thing are brilliant."-Jamie Moyer

  10. #9
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    I don't think we should have done anything yet, but I too wish we had heard some rumblings, whispers, or whimpers out of the Reds during the meetings. Instead of taking jabs at your ideas, I'd rather play along and play GM too, so I'll take my stab.
    Trades I'd make
    1. Miguel Cabrera: seems like they're wanting infielders & pitching - I'd offer Philips, EdE, Wood and/or Maloney, and Majewski (for what he's worth)
    2. Bedard: I think I read something where they're looking for offense - I'd send Hamilton, Votto, and Cueto -- if they don't bite, then maybe Bruce instead of Hamilton
    3. KGJ for a good MLB reliever and a prospect or two

    Free Agents I'd Sign
    1. Gagne (if we stay reasonable) OR Cordero (if we decide to spend a litte)
    2. Reliever (don't know who's best to go after, but I'll take your word on Riske)
    3. Low Risk Starter to compete for 5th Spot (Clement or Prior, for example, on an incentive type deal)

    Finished Product
    1)Freel/Hopper/Dickerson- CF
    2)Keppinger - 2B
    3)Hamilton/Bruce - RF
    4)Cabrera- 3B
    5)Dunn-LF
    6)Hatteberg/Cantu -1B
    7)Gonzo- SS
    8)Ross/Valentin - C

    SP
    1)Harang
    2)Bedard
    3)Arroyo
    4)Bailey
    5)Belisle/Clement/Prior


    BP
    CL-Gagne/Cordero
    setup-Weathers
    setup-Burton
    righty- Riske
    Reliever acquired for KGJ
    lefty- Bray
    lefty- Coutlangus


    Bench
    IN-Hatteberg/Cantu
    C-Valentin/Ross
    OF-Hopper/Dickerson
    OF/IN- Freel

    I don't think this is too idealistic and keeps us young while not really raising payroll all that much (at least in the next couple years) and we get to keep at least one out of each of Hamilton/Bruce and Cueto/Bailey.
    Last edited by hippie07; 11-10-2007 at 01:34 AM.

  11. #10
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    No way I trade Phillips or Bruce.

    I'd love to have Cabrera, Bedard, and/or Kazmir. Not sure we have enough to trade for all 3 or even 2 of them. I'd trade Bailey, Hamilton, EE (for Cabrera), Cueto, Maloney in any type of packages we could to get 2 of those 3 players. I doubt it's possible.......but I think that is some pretty good return. I'd even consider trading Votto if I could get all 3 of them, which is a pipedream.

    1B Hatteberg/Cantu/Keppinger
    2B Phillips/Keppinger
    SS Gonzalez/Keppinger
    3B Cabrera/Keppinger/Cantu
    LF Dunn
    CF Bruce
    RF Griffey

    SP Harang
    SP Bedard
    SP Kazmir
    SP Arroyo
    SP Free Agent

    RP Gagne
    RP Burton
    RP Weathers
    etc., etc......
    3 LH power hitters in your outfield, 2 RH power hitters in your infield. Obviously we've traded Votto, Hamilton and EE along with Bailey, Cueto, and Maloney to get those guys.

    It shows that this team could be made to be competitive with the right trades and free agent signings. And we have the prospects to get it done, IMO.
    Who's on first?

  12. #11
    Retro-Gamer Krawhitham's Avatar
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    Cabrera is horrible at 3rd and will come in 20 pounds heavier next season

    pitching, pitching, pitching is all they need and maybe just relief pitching at that. I would like to see Dunn traded so Bruce can play, but Dunn can not be traded until June

  13. #12
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    Why is everyone such jerks on the computer.I made a post and ask for thoughts,not smart a$% responses.It was a actual post,looking for actual responses.For everyone who gave a answer that was resonable thanks.For the rest,thanks you also.I can tell you all need a little love to be sent your way.But to be real why do posters on sites like this and others always attack each other.I just dont get it.I have been posting for years on Reds and UK BB sites and have seen this happen all the time,I just dont understand it.If it makes you feel big well more power to ya.But I just think these boards would be a mush better place to converse if all this attacking other posters post crap would stop.If you disagree say it in a respectful manner not all this bull crap you guys do it with.
    I guess it part of the up bringing of a person.The new generation is a step behind the others in morals and how to treat other humans kindly.Well back to Reds baseball.I thin the moves would help and I believe LoDuca is worth 4mil.a year.Alos I stated above that the moves I posted above were probably not going to happen.I was just having fun yoiu guess need to try it sometime thanks.

  14. #13
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    having a ton of pitching doesn't help
    having great pitching helps
    The Reds could use some pitching, but not average guys like they seem to always get. There is no SP in free agency that's worth it, and only a couple relievers that are worth it.
    That means a trade is the only way to actually improve our pitching enough to make a real difference, and that means going after guys like Santana/Bedard/Kazmir/Peavy... etc who are dominate.
    Every team "has" pitching but the quality is what matters, not quantity.
    Cabrera isn't worth it because of the prospects and cost it would need to obtain him.... what's better? Giving up Bailey/EE/Hamilton for 2 years of Cabrera at 15+M or getting Arod for 30M? Is Bailey/EE/Hamilton worth more 15M? that's an easy answer

  15. #14
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    As for Lo Duca.... it makes no sense....
    Ross makes 2.5M next year and he doesn't really have any trade value because of how bad he did offensivley.
    Lo Duca would make 4M? so that's 6.5M for Catcher..... the starter Duca and backup Ross
    Lo Duca had an OPS+ of 80 last year and has OPS+ of 99 in his career. He is basically an average hitter at best who is also 36 for 2008.
    Ross had an OPS+ of 68 last year, and 130 in 2006. His BABIP suggests he was very unlucky. I'm not saying he was good, but comparative to Lo Duca he isn't 1.5M worse.
    Ross+ Duca is not worth 6.5M no matter what.
    Lo Duca and a 500k backup might be alright, but there is no way we can just trade away Ross, and there is no backup ready for MLB in the minors

  16. #15
    Member tripleaaaron's Avatar
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    Re: Very disappointed in the Reds so far

    I would absolutely not pull the trigger on that miggy trade I'd rather have BP and EdE than Miggy alone, especially since acquiring his salary (in relation to the two aboves combined salaries) would mean less money to shore up our area of need, Pitching. Also giving up two solid prospects of obvious said need would only put us further in the hole. We tried the "spend all of our money on offense" tactic once before, and we are still waiting for the club to turn around. Pitching gets us to the playoffs, and furthermore, wins championships.
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