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Thread: Some interesting notes...

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Some interesting notes...

    Just some things I found perusing that make for some solid discussion. Mostly Reds related, but some other nuggets as well.

    This one from about a few days to a week ago:
    Rick (Chicago): Any market for Ken Griffey Junior either this offseason or next June after #600? If so, what kind of return do you envision? His legs are clearly shot though the bat speed is still there. With Jay Bruce essentially ready, Castellini publicly pining for a Dunn extension and Josh Hamilton OPS'ing .920 after a miraculous comeback, he's got to be the odd-man out, right?

    Rob Neyer: Right now, Bruce is the odd man out. But if the Reds are willing to eat a chunk of Griffey's contract -- he's owed $12.5 million in '08, but roughly half of that is deferred -- he'd make an interesting DH for somebody like the Mariners, or the Yankees, or even the Twins.
    Kenneth (Macon, Ga): Rumors are that Griffey may be on the way out of Cincy. Where might he go? Some rumblings going on that Atlanta may be a possible destination as a filler for a few years before the young guys are ready for the OF, any truth to this?

    Jayson Stark: He has interest in going there. But I don't sense that the feeling is mutual. So don't bet on it.
    Josh (Dayton): With a full season of work under their belts after this year...could Jay Bruce, Votto, Homer Bailey, and Johnny Cueto push the Reds into serious contention in 09?

    Keith Law: Sure, but it sounds like neither Bruce nor Votto will get that full season of work in 2008.
    These a tad more recent:
    Some of the interesting names that came up during the GM meetings included A.J. Burnett (because he can opt out after the 2008 season), Ryan Freel, Jon Garland, Brian Fuentes, Dontrelle Willis, Noah Lowry, Ian Snell, Erik Bedard ("Hey, they didn't say no when we brought him up," says one baseball official), Joe Crede (the Johnny Damon talk doesn't go away), Troy Glaus and even Delmon Young, although it would take an offer that included someone like Hughes or Clay Buchholz to even begin discussions.
    Derek (Mpls): Keith--love the chats. Any way the Twins could land a decent OBP guy like Hatteberg in a small trade? It'd be nice to have a DH that occasionally hit a home run.

    Keith Law: I said this in July - Hatteberg would be a GREAT fit for the Twins, and since Rivsy worked there it would seem to increase the chances of a deal. But I have not heard any whisper of just a trade.
    Corey (Syracuse NY): Why is it that we all can see that Votto needs to play over Hatteberg? What does Hatteberg do well? How is it possible that their are "baseball" people who could possibly buy into Hatteberg over Votto?

    Keith Law: Hatteberg came back so cheap it was silly not to keep him - but now they need to make the decision to bench him and play Votto, which they may not do.
    bk: Your a prospect guy, is can't miss Brandon Wood being second guessed suddenly? Even if he just guesses pitches like Adam Dunn his Home Runs should bode well to the Angels weakness.

    Keith Law: Yes, his pitch recognition isn't good and I don't see him drawing 100 walks a year like Dunn. But if the Angels aren't going to acquire A-Rod or Tejada or another big 3b, they should find a way to give Wood 300-400 AB and see what he does. Maybe I'm wrong and he does have more walks in him, in which case, as you said, he's got value.
    Michael (Portland, ME): Jay Bruce the real deal?

    Keith Law: Yes. One of the top 5 prospects in the game.
    Paul (Cincy): Keith, was Hatteberg worth his 1.85 mil option to be a PH with Votto in the lineup?

    Keith Law: I hope that they're going to deal him now and play Votto every day. Hatteberg at that money was such a good value that it made sense to pick up his option, but they have to cash that in via trade, rather than block a guy who's ready and costs 75% less.
    Zach (Cincinnati): If there was an ESPN Classic for sportsnation chats, this one would definitely be re-ran once a week.....What are your thoughts on Johnny Cueto? Will he make the Reds rotation out of spring training next year?

    Keith Law: #2 starter, spends most of the year in AAA. Bailey's ahead of him, and Cueto's not 100% ready yet anyway. I also don't like the idea of jumping kids past AAA to go pitch in a tough park like Cincy (or Colorado or Texas).
    Dave (Erie, PA): Jerry, do you think theres any chance that griffey goes to the braves? And what would both sides have to do to make it happen?

    Jerry Crasnick: Dave,

    The Griffey to the Braves rumor has gone on for about five years now, Now that he has only one year left on his contract (at $12.5 million), it makes more sense. But the Braves need a center fielder, and Griffey's defense in center declined enough that I'm not sure he'd be the answer in Atlanta. I also imagine the Braves would want Cincinnati to pick up some of that salary. In short, I still don't see it happenin.'


    The Indians are only listening to offers for Cliff Lee, but right now they plan to keep him and go into spring training with seven starters, including Lee, Jeremy Sowers and Aaron Laffey.
    Adam (DC via Cleveland): Jerry -- hope you'll take an Indians question! The Tribe seems to be really in need of a power hitting corner outfield. To my mind the Indians have the assets to acquire someone. How likely do you think it is that they can arrange a deal, and who might they be able to get?

    Jerry Crasnick: Adam,

    There were a lot of Jason Bay rumors going around recently, and to my knowledge, they haven't been dispelled. He seems to fit the profile for what the Indians want: Young enough, reasonably priced, and with the potential to put up big numbers. Lets put it this way: He makes more sense than them running out and giving Jose Guillen a three-year deal.


    Arizona is one of several teams that talked to Florida about Willis, but there is industry-wide concern about Dontrelle's ERA rising from 2.63 to 3.87 to 5.17 in three years, and right-handed hitters had a .913 OPS against him in 2007.


    Steve (Oakland): Will Billy Beane shock the baseball world this winter ? What does he do ?

    Jerry Crasnick: Steve,

    Billy Beane is monitoring the health of his many injured players (Chavez, Harden, Duchsherer, etc.). At some point this winter, he'll decide whether his team is prepared to make a run in 2008, or if it might be good to trade off some parts and retrench. One thing Beane never does it stand still. Either way, I expect you'll be hearing Joe Blanton's name tossed around a lot in the coming weeks.
    Is Haren available?
    Nov 9 - A's GM Billy Beane might make ace Dan Haren available in order to replenish the A's thin farm system with two or three young players, the Boston Globe reports. To get Haren, though, the Red Sox would have to be willing to part with either Jon Lester or Clay Buchholz.


    Rolen to Twins?
    Nov 9 - The Twins and Cardinals are discussing a deal that would send third baseman Scott Rolen to Minnesota, ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports. Rolen has three years and $33 million remaining on his contract. The Cardinals are presumably asking for pitching in return, but they might not get much due to Rolen's injury history and the money involved.
    Scott (Savage, MN): Buster Olney reported a potential deal between the Twins & Cardinals for Scott Rolen. Who do you think the Twins would have to give up to make it happen. Given Rolen's history of injury - is this a good trade for Minny?

    Jerry Crasnick: Scott,

    The Twins have a nice core of young pitching with Garza, Slowey, Baker, etc. Of those guys, Baker would be the most expendable for Minnesota. But I'd have to think St. Louis would want more. Rolen has three years and $36 million left on his contract. But if the Twins lose Torii Hunter through free agency, they'll have to add offense somewhere. And they can certainly use an upgrade at third base.
    Blake (Durham, NC): Great chat Keith. What's your take on Garza's value? Is he the one heading out or will the Twins hold on all the young pitchers?

    Keith Law: I think Garza's the one they keep, and Slowey and/or Baker are dealt (assuming they deal anyone - we don't know if Smith is as conservative as Ryan is). I like Perkins as a little sleeper fifth starter there.


    Texas homecoming?
    Nov 9 - The Rangers have contacted Kerry Wood, expressing an interest in talking to the right-hander about a free-agent deal, according to the Dallas Morning News. Wood, 30, is a native of Irving, Texas. He was 1-1 with a 3.33 ERA in 22 appearances for the Cubs last season after recovering from shoulder problems.


    Marlins want Kendrick for Cabrera
    Nov 9 - According to the Los Angeles Times, the Marlins want the Angels to include second baseman Howie Kendrick in any trade package for third baseman Miguel Cabrera.

    The Marlins could ask for Kendrick and the Angels' two top prospects, third baseman Brandon Wood and pitcher Nick Adenhart, in exchange for Cabrera, 24, who would fortify the middle of the Angels' lineup around Vladimir Guerrero. The Angels could enhance their chances if they could negotiate a contract extension with Cabrera, who is two years from free agency.

    The Angels and the Dodgers are considered the front-runners to acquire Cabrera, a four-time All-Star. The Miami Herald reports that the Dodgers, also in dire need of a middle-of-the-order threat, could try to entice the Marlins with players such as outfielder Matt Kemp, third baseman Andy LaRoche and pitchers Chad Billingsley and Clayton Kershaw.

    Other teams that have expressed an interest in Cabrera are the Yankees, Red Sox, White Sox, Giants and Indians.

    Phillies eyeing Japanese right-hander
    Nov 7 - The Phillies are interested in right-hander Hiroki Kuroda, who this week formally filed for free agency from the Hiroshima Carp, the Philadelphia Daily News reports.

    A posting fee would not be required to negotiate with Kuroda, who went 12-8 with a 3.56 ERA for the Carp last season. Kuroda reportedly has a good sinker and a mid-90s fastball.

    A lot of gold for Silva
    Nov 7 - The Mets have plans to meet with Carlos Silva's agents, Barry Praver and Scott Shapiro, sometime during the GM meetings, Newsday reports.

    Silva, one of the top pitchers on the free-agent market, could command as much as $50 million over five years, the newspaper speculates.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    I'd like to see the Reds acquire a backend starter without losing a Regular or top 5 minor leaguer. Any chance someone like the Twinkes or someone else offer up a 4 or 5 starter and maybe a farmhand for something like: Hatteberg, Freel and Coffee or Majewski or Darryl Thompson?

    I'd like to see them add a starter for lesser names like the deal above, add a free agent starter or reliever (Kerry Wood or Matt Clement on incentive-laden deals or maybe one of the Japanese starter/closers). Then I'd like to see them add a decent starter (or back end BP candidate - depending on the FA signed).

    I'd also ike to see them add the starter using some combination of Junior, Hamilton or Gonzalez and maybe a minor leaguer or twonot named Bruce, Votto, Bailey and Cueto (I'd prefer to try and keep Maloney too just becasue he's LH'd, but he wouldn't be a deal-killer for me).

    If Gonzalez goes, I'd like to see us get a young MI as part of the return in one of the deals. If an OF oges, I'd like to see us add a RH OF/PH with some pop somewhere along the line.

    The core I'd try to retain would be Votto, Phillips, Encarnacion, Dunn, Bruce, (Junior or Josh), Harang, Bailey and Cueto
    Last edited by corkedbat; 11-10-2007 at 05:31 PM.

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    One thing that jumped out at me is that some of the pundits are assuming that because the Reds picked up Hatteberg's option that it means Vottos going to sit. Did they doze of at season's end when Hatteberg sat while Votto played? They did note the option pick up was a good move, but I think some are reaching the wrong conclusion.
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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    One thing that jumped out at me is that some of the pundits are assuming that because the Reds picked up Hatteberg's option that it means Vottos going to sit. Did they doze of at season's end when Hatteberg sat while Votto played? They did note the option pick up was a good move, but I think some are reaching the wrong conclusion.
    I agree with you, but unless they plan to trade Hatteberg, it does seem hard to imagine that a veteran (and one who has played well as a Red) will sit most of an entire season on the bench.

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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    Half of it is deferred, but some of it counts on this years payroll. It usually is around 10 mill.

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    Any chance someone like the Twinkes or someone else offer up a 4 or 5 starter and maybe a farmhand for something like: Hatteberg, Freel and Coffee or Majewski or Darryl Thompson?
    No.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    One thing that jumped out at me is that some of the pundits are assuming that because the Reds picked up Hatteberg's option that it means Vottos going to sit. Did they doze of at season's end when Hatteberg sat while Votto played? They did note the option pick up was a good move, but I think some are reaching the wrong conclusion.
    I think what they are looking at was the acquisition of Cantu and assuming that Votto can't hit lefties, so a platoon is needed. They're also looking at the history of this club in playing older players.

    Unfortunately, they may be right and if so, there needs to be a riot by the fans.

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    GO XAVIER! toledodan's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    One thing that jumped out at me is that some of the pundits are assuming that because the Reds picked up Hatteberg's option that it means Vottos going to sit. Did they doze of at season's end when Hatteberg sat while Votto played? They did note the option pick up was a good move, but I think some are reaching the wrong conclusion.


    i hope you are right. i will be one pi$$ed off fan if votto sits so hatteburg plays.
    Last edited by toledodan; 11-11-2007 at 01:29 AM.
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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    Picking up Hatteberg's option was a no brainer because of how cheap he was so it might not mean anything.

    That said, rumors suggested that the Reds aren't high on Votto so it's possible the Reds will work out a deal that includes Votto. Also, consider that it's possible that the Reds have zero intention of trading Votto but that he could fail to win the job in ST or he could really struggle if he does win the job.

    Think of Hatteberg as very cheap insurance for a team that might want to trade Votto and a manager that doesn't give youth long leashes...
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting notes...


    Keith Law: Sure, but it sounds like neither Bruce nor Votto will get that full season of work in 2008.
    That's disturbing

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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    That's disturbing
    No more disturbing than most of the drivel that emanates from Keith Law.
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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    No more disturbing than most of the drivel that emanates from Keith Law.
    Exactly! What on earth is Keith Law basing this on? I wouldn't be surprised to see Bruce not starting the season with the big club, particularly if one of the outfielders is not dealt. I assume he starts out in Louisville and comes up by the trade deadline.

    As for Votto, I think the job will be his to take coming out of Spring Training. I would be very surprised if he isn't the regular first baseman coming in to the season.
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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    Exactly! What on earth is Keith Law basing this on? I wouldn't be surprised to see Bruce not starting the season with the big club, particularly if one of the outfielders is not dealt. I assume he starts out in Louisville and comes up by the trade deadline.

    As for Votto, I think the job will be his to take coming out of Spring Training. I would be very surprised if he isn't the regular first baseman coming in to the season.
    Looking at a potential roster than includes Dunn, Jr, Hamilton and Hatteberg coupled with the notion that Baker gives experience a longer leash, it's hard to see where the at bats for Bruce and Votto will come from.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    The average Red Zoner probably spends 10x more time following the Reds than Keith Law does. Asking a national for ESPN to review the offseason plans for a small market team is asking for trouble.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Some interesting notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Looking at a potential roster than includes Dunn, Jr, Hamilton and Hatteberg coupled with the notion that Baker gives experience a longer leash, it's hard to see where the at bats for Bruce and Votto will come from.
    I think that's an Urban Legend that Baker leans towards older players. I thought about this over the weekend, but I don't think he had much younger talent with either San Francisco or Chicago (note, I'm not saying 'none'). He said himself that he's anxious to work with younger players. At San Francisco, he had some younger players that came up under him, e.g. Rich Aurelia and Bill Mueller, to name a couple. Barring a move, I don't expect Bruce to come up, but I think Votto will have a shot at playing 1st base regularly.

    I guess I'm at the point where I want to see what Baker does with this club as it ends up being assembled coming out of Spring, not what alleged "conventional wisdom" is about Dusty.
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