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Thread: What if we stand still?

  1. #1
    REDSBROWNSBUCKEYES
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    What if we stand still?

    I know this will not be a popular idea to most of you, but I wonder if it might be wise to stand pat this offseason and see what happens going into the all-star break. Hear me out here, if we make no moves we may not compete this year, but I think even with some desperate moves it's still a coin toss as to whether they
    will work out especially with pitching. What if we saved our money and touted prospects and waited for next years FA class of pitchers which looks much deeper. Dunn will be need to be signed to a LTC of course for this to pan out, but I just don't like the idea of trading away young cheap talent for pitchers that are and will continue to get more and more expensive. Say we trade Votto, and Hamilton for a pitcher like Garza and he blows his arm out, that would be devistating at this point. I say if we are going to make any moves this year lets get rid of some older players and maybe get less in return than a Garza, Cain type and continue to get younger and shave the payroll to where we can sign a monster free agent or two next year when there is more to choose from. We've waited this long, and if the FO came out and told the fans that this was there plan then I think I could stomach it as long as they followed through. Just a thought.

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  3. #2
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    We could stand still..and it be reasonable to some.

    1. I would at minimum like to see some low offers w/incentives for pitchers coming off rough years. Clement type pitcher comes to mind.

    I think we can possibly compete with everday lineup and BP (Maybe..maybe). But starting pitching will be a hole in 3-5 spots. One may round out for us (Belisle) but the other 2 spots will be just as likely to bottom out yet again.

    But in the end, if we hold pat while terrible deals go thru, then fine and we'll be there til July to sell Hatteberg, Griff, Freel or Weathers if applicable for whatever interests the team.

  4. #3
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM View Post
    I know this will not be a popular idea to most of you, but I wonder if it might be wise to stand pat this offseason and see what happens going into the all-star break. Hear me out here, if we make no moves we may not compete this year, but I think even with some desperate moves it's still a coin toss as to whether they
    will work out especially with pitching. What if we saved our money and touted prospects and waited for next years FA class of pitchers which looks much deeper. Dunn will be need to be signed to a LTC of course for this to pan out, but I just don't like the idea of trading away young cheap talent for pitchers that are and will continue to get more and more expensive. Say we trade Votto, and Hamilton for a pitcher like Garza and he blows his arm out, that would be devistating at this point. I say if we are going to make any moves this year lets get rid of some older players and maybe get less in return than a Garza, Cain type and continue to get younger and shave the payroll to where we can sign a monster free agent or two next year when there is more to choose from. We've waited this long, and if the FO came out and told the fans that this was there plan then I think I could stomach it as long as they followed through. Just a thought.
    I'm not opposed to this.

    Only deal I make is for Kazmir, Peavy, or Bedard. Other than signing a free agent closer........I don't really want to trade for anyone but a number one starter.
    Who's on first?

  5. #4
    Thank God Steves Gone
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    All I would like to see is a commitment to win and by that I want to see them try to get better. We are a decent team if we stand pat, but we are one pitcher away from being a good team IMO.
    In This Man I Trust .. A Little Bit

  6. #5
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    Even if we stand pat - I think we should still dip into FA for bullpen help - at least a closer. Also, if we stand pat, I wouldn't sign Dunn to a LTC and I buy off Griffey. Hamilton steps into Dunn's shoes and Bruce steps into Griffey's shoes and we play a defensive CFer. Without Dunn & Griffey we free up at least $25 which we turn around and purchase Santana. Then we **cross-fingers** and hope that Bailey & Cueto are ready to be dominant in 2009. Making our starting rotation:
    Santana
    Harang
    Arroyo
    Bailey
    Cueto

    and a lineup of:
    fast defensive CFer
    Phillips
    Hamilton
    Bruce
    Votto
    EdE
    Gonzales
    Catcher (don't know if Ross is here in '09)

    That's not too bad ... especially if Hamilton, Bruce, Votto, Cueto, & Bailey turn out to be the studs we all hope they'll be... but ... that's alotta finger-crossing, IMO, but if it all pans out - I think we'll be pretty good.

    It might be the safest way to go as a GM, but it's not the way I would go about it if I were GM unless none of the excellent SP touted to be on the market this offseason were actually on the market, if that were the case then I think I would stand pat .... but w/ the additioin of a closer, of course ;-)

  7. #6
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    Very true, if we're serious in thinking that Hamilton and Bruce are the future and that both are better served by playing a corner OF spot...then shedding Griff (no brainer) and Dunn is going to be a decision we have to make and put it into pitching.

  8. #7
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    I think that might be the best choice. Belisle and Bailey are likely to show a lot of improvement next year, and we are likely to see both Cueto and Maloney the second half of the year. Our young bullpen pitchers could be considered to be much better next year, and I would prefer our outstanding prospects to stay on the Reds. There really is not much out in free agency, and I would be very hesitant to trade any of our top prospects unles we got a #1-#2 back in return.

  9. #8
    The Future GoReds33's Avatar
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    You make a good point. I don't know what would happen if we stand pat. I am not a big fan of the idea though. I would prefer signing a couple bullpen pitchers. As the rotation goes though, I would like to see them let that work itself out. With Bailey, Cueto, and Maloney coming up, there seems to be plenty of talent to fill up the rotation.
    If you can't build a winning team with that core a fire-sale isn't the solution. Selling the franchise, moving them to Nashville and converting GABP into a used car lot is.
    -LTlabner

  10. #9
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    Standing pat on big trades may make sense for start of season. I'm afraid the asking price for Kazmir/Peavy/Bedard will be too steep.

    But we do need a #5 starter. Can't start the season with Harang, Arroyo, Belisle, Bailey? and Shearn/Ramirez/Maloney??? May need to sign a Lieber or Lohse. We also have some spare parts that could be dealt for bullpen or a #5 starter (i.e. Freel, Hatteburg, Cantu, or Hopper).

    We can see what mid-season brings whether there's a deal out there for Dunn or Griffey that makes sense to make room for Bruce.

  11. #10
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    Harang is a workhorse. Arroyo is fragile. 2007 was Belisle's 1rst year as a starter. Bailey will be on pitch limits. Cueto will be in AAA. Therefore we need someone to eat innings in 2007.
    We don't want the young arms to fall off.
    Also we have seen what Arroyo does when overused, don't get him injured simply because we have no one to take the mound.
    We NEED another starter for 2008.
    Cueto-Shearns-Maloney-hopefully Elizardo can be in AAA to start the season.

    Signing another Stanton/Weathers/geriatric releiver is not what we need. BUT, even if the goal is to build for 2009+ then we could add a pitcher or two under age 30 this offseason.

    So while I will be ok with no huge trades/signings I don't want to do nothing this offseason.

    Krivsky has actually shown great talent in adding to the talent in the organization. Where he has struggled is in managing a 40 man roster & a few bad short term signings ( Stanton, Cormier ).
    .

  12. #11
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM View Post
    I know this will not be a popular idea to most of you, but I wonder if it might be wise to stand pat this offseason and see what happens going into the all-star break. Hear me out here, if we make no moves we may not compete this year, but I think even with some desperate moves it's still a coin toss as to whether they
    will work out especially with pitching. What if we saved our money and touted prospects and waited for next years FA class of pitchers which looks much deeper. Dunn will be need to be signed to a LTC of course for this to pan out, but I just don't like the idea of trading away young cheap talent for pitchers that are and will continue to get more and more expensive. Say we trade Votto, and Hamilton for a pitcher like Garza and he blows his arm out, that would be devistating at this point. I say if we are going to make any moves this year lets get rid of some older players and maybe get less in return than a Garza, Cain type and continue to get younger and shave the payroll to where we can sign a monster free agent or two next year when there is more to choose from. We've waited this long, and if the FO came out and told the fans that this was there plan then I think I could stomach it as long as they followed through. Just a thought.
    I'm not opposed to standing pat. I agree with the person in another thread that said we as Reds fans tend to overestimate the value of our young prosects. I just don't see Cincinnati as being where "monster free agents" , especially pitchers, want to sign unless we grossly overpay.

  13. #12
    REDSBROWNSBUCKEYES
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds33 View Post
    You make a good point. I don't know what would happen if we stand pat. I am not a big fan of the idea though. I would prefer signing a couple bullpen pitchers. As the rotation goes though, I would like to see them let that work itself out. With Bailey, Cueto, and Maloney coming up, there seems to be plenty of talent to fill up the rotation.
    I agree on signing someone for the pen, I just don't want to see any of the young guys go. We have a great core of young talent that could serve us well for a long time. About the bullpen, all you would need to add IMO is a closer. Lets say we are able to sign Cordero that gives us.
    Bray
    Cout
    Stanton(not bad if used sparingly in match-up situations)
    Maj(could rebound after full recoup.)
    Weathers
    Burton
    Cordero
    Looks much better when you can slide Weathers into the slot where we had most of our trouble last year.

  14. #13
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM View Post
    I know this will not be a popular idea to most of you, but I wonder if it might be wise to stand pat this offseason and see what happens going into the all-star break. Hear me out here, if we make no moves we may not compete this year, but I think even with some desperate moves it's still a coin toss as to whether they
    will work out especially with pitching. What if we saved our money and touted prospects and waited for next years FA class of pitchers which looks much deeper. Dunn will be need to be signed to a LTC of course for this to pan out, but I just don't like the idea of trading away young cheap talent for pitchers that are and will continue to get more and more expensive. Say we trade Votto, and Hamilton for a pitcher like Garza and he blows his arm out, that would be devistating at this point. I say if we are going to make any moves this year lets get rid of some older players and maybe get less in return than a Garza, Cain type and continue to get younger and shave the payroll to where we can sign a monster free agent or two next year when there is more to choose from. We've waited this long, and if the FO came out and told the fans that this was there plan then I think I could stomach it as long as they followed through. Just a thought.

    I really think that standing pat would not be the worst idea, although I think our greatest need is a closer ala Cordero! I say sign him and hang onto the young talent and then if we are in the thick of it at the half make a trade. OF course if someone falls into our laps we sure better not reject it. I think trading Dunn, Votto, Bailey, Cueto, Bruce, Philips or Harang would be a major major mistake. We will never be able to compete on the open market, we have to develop talent. We are not deep in talent right now so I semi want to stand pat - sign a closer!!

  15. #14
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    Quote Originally Posted by hippie07 View Post
    Even if we stand pat - I think we should still dip into FA for bullpen help - at least a closer. Also, if we stand pat, I wouldn't sign Dunn to a LTC and I buy off Griffey. Hamilton steps into Dunn's shoes and Bruce steps into Griffey's shoes and we play a defensive CFer. Without Dunn & Griffey we free up at least $25 which we turn around and purchase Santana. Then we **cross-fingers** and hope that Bailey & Cueto are ready to be dominant in 2009. Making our starting rotation:
    Santana
    Harang
    Arroyo
    Bailey
    Cueto

    and a lineup of:
    fast defensive CFer
    Phillips
    Hamilton
    Bruce
    Votto
    EdE
    Gonzales
    Catcher (don't know if Ross is here in '09)

    That's not too bad ... especially if Hamilton, Bruce, Votto, Cueto, & Bailey turn out to be the studs we all hope they'll be... but ... that's alotta finger-crossing, IMO, but if it all pans out - I think we'll be pretty good.

    It might be the safest way to go as a GM, but it's not the way I would go about it if I were GM unless none of the excellent SP touted to be on the market this offseason were actually on the market, if that were the case then I think I would stand pat .... but w/ the additioin of a closer, of course ;-)

    I hate to admit it, but I never thought about just letting Dunn and Griffey walk and just keeping Hamilton, bringing up Bruce, and sticking Hopper in the other spot and letting him leadoff. Then you have a blossoming infield of Votto, Phillips, Gonzalez/Keppinger and EE. Other than Phillips, you're not paying that much for any position player and you can dump money into starting pitching.

    Interesting idea. If only they do it.
    Who's on first?

  16. #15
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    Re: What if we stand still?

    If we could sign a closer I would be fine with the rest of the team staying as is and Bailey and Cueto in the rotation.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.


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