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Thread: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

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    Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Do you love baseball?

    Do you ingest the game and all its nuances, stats and lore, playing out the plots, the twists, the turns and the failures and the successes?

    If you do then you surely know of this tale that has entrapped the game?

    The one that brings forth the clarity of the rules and the extent some men would take to succeed in-between the lines. Sure, we all know the particulars, the tale that sees marked improvement in players who seemingly appear out of the thin air and dominate the league.

    We have all heard the accusations of players willing to do anything to extend their careers, this is a story of men taking an edge, hoping others keep their secrets in what usually becomes a sea of accusations

    Of course when queried about such “edge taking” the league in turn denies that the events existed or ever took place.

    Of course you’re nodding your head, you know the story, you know I’m talking of Barry Bonds, steroids and the Mitchell report… right?

    Wrong, I’m referring to what happened in the game almost 100 years ago. Extraordinary performances, finger pointing, denial, pride, and of course money, all the tools for a gripping story even by today’s information saturated standards, and it involves the games oldest muse, the need to succeed.

    The Scene:

    Between 1904-1909 the game was being changed by the advent of the spitball, the contests of the 1890’s with their constant offensive explosions were a distant memory and in 1908 the major leagues as a whole had a sub .300 ob base percentage, a dismal number only matched once since, by the 1968 campaign, which is widely considered the greatest pitching era since the early part of the century. So we get the picture, the game is a low scoring affair with many of the stars of the game being pitchers, the ones who are generating the obscene numbers, for example:

    Code:
    WINS                       YEAR      W        L       IP       ERA
    Jack Chesbro             1904       41       12    454.2     1.82
    Ed Walsh                 1908       40       15    464       1.42
    Christy Mathewson        1908       37       11    390.2     1.43
    Joe McGinnity            1904       35        8    408       1.61
    Christy Mathewson        1904       33       12    367.2     2.03
    Christy Mathewson        1905       31        9    338.2     1.28
    George Mullin            1909       29        8    303.2     2.22
    Three Finger Brown       1908       29        9    312.1     1.47
    Addie Joss               1907       27       11    338.2     1.83
    Doc White                1907       27       13    291       2.26
    Al Orth                  1906       27       17    338.2     2.34
    Three Finger Brown       1909       27        9    342.2     1.31
    Joe McGinnity            1906       27       12    340       2.25
    Rube Waddell             1905       27       10    328.2     1.48
    Then for those of us wary of W/L records here is Runs Saved Above Average.

    Code:
    RSAA                  YEAR    RSAA      PCT      IP       ERA
    Christy Mathewson        1905       61     .775    338.2     1.28
    Jack Chesbro             1904       52     .774    454.2     1.82
    Ed Reulbach              1905       52     .563    292       1.42
    Joe McGinnity            1904       51     .814    408       1.61
    Three Finger Brown       1906       50     .813    277.1     1.04
    Rube Waddell             1905       49     .730    328.2     1.48
    Addie Joss               1908       47     .686    325       1.16
    Christy Mathewson        1909       45     .806    275.1     1.14
    Christy Mathewson        1908       44     .771    390.2     1.43
    Ed Walsh                 1907       44     .571    422.1     1.60
    Get the picture?

    From 1904-1909 the major leagues produced a .245/.304/.314/ batting line, and pitching was the name of the game and in 1908 the spitball was the pitch of choice for many upcoming hurlers who didn’t possess an over the top major league fastball.

    The Actor:

    One of these hurlers was Russell Ford, a 24 year old who was honing his craft for the Crackers in Atlanta in 1907. During a throwing session Ford accidentally scuffed a ball in a manner that did not display the scuff, but never the less Ford could see that it was scuffed, while throwing his spitter Ford noticed that the scuffed ball would behave in a manner that was unusual and highly effective. He and his catcher marveled at the balls crazy movement.(For the record Clark Griffin a pitcher in the 1890’s also noted this odd movement, using his spikes to achieve the scuff in his playing days) For the remainder of the season Ford occasionally played around with his new discovery, but he eventually discarded it and returned to his spitter and tried his best to catch the eyes of a major league team , with his prior talents. Ford pitched all of 1908 without playing with his strange new pitch, he was however successful in being picked up by a major league team when he was purchased by the New York Yankees, who at the time were second banana to the Giants in the New York baseball world, seeing him as a project more then a prospect the Yankees sent Ford to Jersey City and told him to work on his stuff before he thought of pitching in the big leagues.

    Baseball is a game that has forever paved its road on the bones of men like Ford who were told to fix their stuff in the minors it’s more the norm then anything else. Most of them don’t make it, most of them don’t do time, most of them don’t improve. Russell Ford knew this, he also knew that he had an Ace up his sleeve.

    Russ Ford had his secret.

    Russ Ford had his new pitch.

    The year was 1909 and Russ Ford was going to work his ware for Jersey City in the Eastern League, Jersey City was the poor cousin of the league, pulling up the rear and blessed with not many stars nor players with hopes of being major league regulars. Russ Ford decided that his ticket out of Jersey City was his southern discovery and masking that discovery as his spitter was the trick he felt would help explain his sudden increased movement when he threw.

    When thrown properly the spitball will break down on a batter, as if it is falling off a shelf. Many great spitballers happened to be large men who not only get the action caused by the added moisture, but they generally get better movement if they throw hard and fast. Russ Ford unfortunately was not a large man for a major league pitcher and he topped out at 5’ 11”, which is 2 inches then Jack Chesbro, the New York Americans most famous pitcher to date, and a spitball master.

    Ford knew that he had to make the new pitch sing, that’s why the first time he tried it he took sandpaper with him out to the mound. Working daily on his pitch Ford kept it close to his vest, letting only his catcher and a few friends know of his trick. By the seasons end he had struck out 189 batters and convinced the Yankees that he was worth a try and thus he headed to Spring Training in Athens Georgia in March of 1910.

    The First Act:

    March:
    ATHENS, Ga., March 21 — The Yankees this afternoon slaughtered the University of Georgia, the score being 10 to 0. There were spots here and there where the game looked good. These happened every time New York came to bat. Before the pitching of Jim Vaughan, Rus Ford, and Bill Upham the collegians never had a show.

    Notes: Jim Vaughn is “Hippo” Vaughn who is perhaps the last great Cubs lefthander. Bill Upham had a cup of coffee with Brooklyn of the Federal League and the Braves during the 1918 season. Ford’s name is spelled wrong in the article, that is what an unknown he is.

    April:
    Russell Ford winged a twister, which is well known among scientists as the aqueous heave, at the Detroits at American League Park yesterday, and the Tigers did homage to the Yankee pitcher’s elusive curves by submitting to a 2 to 0 shut-out. Ford shot the moist slant at the slugging Tigers with great speed and judicious control.

    Notes: In his first ML start against Philadelphia, Ford struck out 9 batters, including Harry Davis four times.

    May:
    The Yankees shut out the White Sox on the Hilltop yesterday by a 5-to-0 score, the campaign being commanded by Russell Ford, who twirled a brand of gilt-edged ball which is not at large very often during a season. He had unerring control of his damp toss, which broke and jumped over the plate in all sorts of angles.

    Notes: Ford called his pitch a “slide ball” and went to his mouth before ever using the scuff ball, which officially was now an “Emery Ball” because Ford used an emery ring to create the scuff on the ball. He had a hole in his glove that would reveal the ring if adjusted in the proper manner, then he would rub the ball with the ring, roughening the surface.

    June:
    FORD INVINCIBLE AGAINST THE NAPS; Yankees’ Young Pitcher Outgames Cy Young and Wins a Shutout Game.

    Notes:1910 was Youngs last season in organized baseball. Young pitched over 160 innings that season as he closed out his career in the same city he started it in (Cleveland)

    July:
    FORD HOLDS BROWNS TO ONE HIT AND RUN; Roach’s Dullness in Ninth Inning Deprives Pitcher of a No-Hit Game.

    Notes:The Dullness was in fact what the reporter thought was a ball that could have been played, his calling out of the player is written in a manner that has long since vanished in the sport press.

    August:
    FORD’S PITCHING BEATS WHITE SOX; Yankees Play Fine Ball Against Chicago and Win by 1 to 0 Score.

    Notes: Also in the Yankees pitching staff in 1910 was spitballer Jack Quinn, who was a year younger than Ford, Quinn would wrap up his career 23 years later in Cincinnati at the age of 49.

    September:
    FORD A STUMBLING BLOCK AGAINST NAPS; Yankees’ Famous Young Pitcher Allows Them One Run and Six Hits.

    Notes: September was the month that Hal Chase had finally weaseled his way into the managerial seat for the Yankees, In a story too long to tell Chase etched his mark into the New York franchise, he took an 88 win team and within two years they would be 102 game losers, which by the way is the last time the Yankees ever lost 100 games.

    At seasons end Russ led all of major league ball in the fewest hits allowed per nine innings with a 5.83 rate, which is 12th best in MLB history.

    Code:
    HITS/9 IP                YEAR   H/9 IP     PCT      IP       ERA
    Nolan Ryan               1972     5.26     .543    284       2.28
    Luis Tiant               1968     5.30     .700    258.1     1.60
    Nolan Ryan               1991     5.31     .667    173       2.91
    Pedro Martinez           2000     5.31     .750    217       1.74
    Ed Reulbach              1906     5.33     .826    218       1.65
    Dutch Leonard            1914     5.56     .792    225       1.00
    Carl Lundgren            1907     5.65     .720    207       1.17
    Sid Fernandez            1985     5.71     .500    170.1     2.80
    Tommy Byrne              1949     5.74     .682    196       3.72
    Dave McNally             1968     5.77     .688    273       1.95
    Sandy Koufax             1965     5.79     .765    336       2.04
    Russ Ford                1910     5.83     .813    299.2     1.65
    Al Downing               1963     5.83     .722    176       2.56
    Hideo Nomo               1995     5.83     .684    191.1     2.54
    Bob Gibson               1968     5.84     .710    305       1.12
    February:

    President Frank Farrell, Manager-Captain Hal Chase, and Scout Arthur Irwin of the Yankees returned from Chicago yesterday, where they had been attending the American League meeting. They came home smiling and bearing good news. Russell Ford, the sensational pitcher of the team, has signed his contract for 1911

    Notes: Ford’s wonderful season was a good case for him to hold out and that he did, but eventually the Yankees signed him.

    As the off season came to a close Ford was elevated to the higher echelon of hurlers, in newspaper accounts he was mentioned aside Walter Johnson who was the premiere American League moundsmen. This is evidenced by this tid-bit in the hot stove press.

    Walter Johnson and Russell Ford are two star twirlers of the American League who refuse to do relief work, it being understood when they signed their rather handsome contracts that they would not be called upon to relieve twirlers when they were knocked from the box. The star boxman of the Washington Club and the Yankees’ best bet receive handsome salaries, but even at the high figures they command, they will not be sent in at inopportune moments. Walsh is one of the few high-priced boxmen of the Ban Johnson organization who will submit to work as an emergency or relief boxman. Johnson draws $7,000 per season, while Ford and Walsh get $5,000 per year. Last season Ford worked in 33 games and only relieved other twirlers in two. Johnson worked in 38 games and he, too, was used as relief twirled but once. These two stars claim it ruins their arm to pitch more often than their regular turn and this was plainly shown to be the case when it is remembered the two took their regular turn throughout the campaign, not complaining of a sore arm for a day.

    NY Times 1911
    Players spoke of Ford’s spitter and how it could break 3-4 different directions, breaking in, out as well as the standard downwards trek, other times it could be noted as rising instead of sinking. Since a baseball spins when thrown there are two points that act as the poles of the sphere, they move in one place. Ford had found that scuffing one of these points could control the flight of the pitch. Scratching one pole could produce a inward trek and the other an outward dip. A simple arm adjustment in the delivery could get the ball to behave as a riser.

    One of the main keepers of Fords secret was the catcher Ed Sweeny who was with Russ when he discovered the pitch in Atlanta in 1907, who helped keep his secret close to his vest. The pitch was a winner for Ford, but it also was something of a problem when it was struck and entered the play of field. Mainly because the ball still possessed the scuff and thus was prone to performing aerodynamic tricks as it careened towards fielders on less then stellar playing surfaces. Throws from all the fielders who held the emery ball could end up almost anywhere, and many errors that occurred on the field when Ford was pitching can now be seen under a cloud of suspicion. Ford was able to frame the task at hand best:

    “Pitching the emery ball was not unlike handling a stick of dynamite. It was the best delivery in the world, yet the pitcher never knew when the very excellence of his delivery might work against him and throw away for him the game he was winning by his fine work in the box.”
    Act Two:

    Originality is the art of concealing your sources
    Benjamin Franklin
    Ford was convinced that his secret was just that, a secret. His 1912 and 1913 seasons were not particularly fine, especially in the shadow of the achievements he garnered in his initial trips through the circuit. With contentment often comes carelessness, or so I’ve heard. The point is that Fords secret wasn’t exactly as secret as he thought.

    Over in Cleveland 6’5” Cy Felkenberg was about to step into the story. Cy could be a formidable figure on the mound, however he most often wasn’t, mostly due to his thin frame and less then impressive stuff. An educated man Cy knew that his time in the league was drawing to a close, he was over 30 and he was in his fourth organization and wasn’t counted on to help them out much in 1913.

    A friendly tip from a minor league catcher in Toledo was the first time someone had revealed Fords secret to an opposing hurler. Knowing that it might be his last chance Cy decided that he had nothing to lose. And losing wasn’t something he experienced as he won his first eight starts of the season in complete games and after a no-decision he won two more. By seasons end Cy had a 23-10 record and a 2.22 ERA, all records for the beanpole from Illinois. Cy’s sudden surge wasn’t missed by his fellow players and he claimed that Clark Griffin himself examined several balls after Cy stepped off the mound. Cy also was haphazard in hiding the trick from his teammates, his trick was to sew an emery cloth in his glove and using that to roughen the sphere. Because of this carelessness, not many were convinced that the real Cy Felkenberg could suddenly put so much stuff on the ball. Mainly a changeup pitcher with and occasional fastball to keep the hitters honest, Felkenberg wasn’t able to hide his success behind the spitter like Ford and he made no deceptive moves to hide his erratic new pitch, so suspicion was at a higher level when he was on the mound than there was when Ford toed the rubber. At the seasons end Cy had surpassed Ford as the premier trick hurler in the league and Ford was experiencing a salary dispute with the Yankees after a poor season.

    Act Three:

    The salary dispute was a symptom of the larger issue the league was facing, and that was a challenge to their monopoly by the Federal League. In an attempt to legitimize itself the FL like the AL years before was content stealing players from the older, more established league.

    Both Ford and Felkenberg parlayed their success into contracts extending their careers and topping the prior paydays they had enjoyed. The pitch had not only saved their careers, but had enhanced their bank statements as well.

    After being offered only a raise of $250 for the 1914 season Felkenberg followed Ford to the rival league, and in the two season they pitched there both still were top line hurlers.

    Best Hits per Nine in Federal League 1914-1915

    Code:
    HITS/9 IP                      H/9 IP   BB/9 IP  SO/9 IP
    Gene Krapp                     7.18     4.43     3.70
    Claude Hendrix                 7.21     2.24     4.12
    Dave Davenport                 7.46     2.60     5.49
    Fred Anderson                  7.82     2.45     5.14
    Russ Ford                      7.93     2.14     3.77
    Al Schulz                      7.94     4.23     4.62
    Nick Cullop                    8.04     2.32     3.91
    Happy Finneran                 8.06     3.39     2.81
    Earl Moseley                   8.08     3.42     5.34
    Cy Falkenberg                  8.11     2.23     5.00
    Act Four:

    It was in the middle of the 1914 season that the secret hit the streets and it seemed that all over the league pitchers were taking up the new pitch. Confronted by the press in Baltimore Ford finally admitted that he knew of the pitch, despite the insistence by Federal League officials that he deny it.
    Why should I deny it? It’s been my secret for seven years and I should not expect to keep it forever.
    As the pitch grew in popularity it became the bane of many officials and fellow players as well.

    The Emery Ball requires little or no skill on the part of the pitcher, an outfielder with a good arm and fair speed could come in and pitched the Emery ball.
    Walter Johnson
    By the 1914 all three leagues took a stand.


    Russell Ford had this to say about the Emery Ball in early 1915
    As for me, I’m through with the Emery Ball for all time. I have no complaints to make. The Emery Ball has been good to me, it round out the years that I needed it most and won many a close game for me.
    By seasons end Fords career had come to a close.


    Now with a possible $200 fine attached to it the pitchers looked away from the emery ball and spawned similar pitches like the “Mud Ball” and “Shine Ball” pitches that depended on dirt to provide the abnormality in the spheres flight. The Mud Ball was the first to take a fall.


    The Shine Ball would linger a few more years and was particularly kind to the Cincinnati Reds in 1919, however all freak deliveries would vanish when he spitter was abolished in February of 1920 when the game tilted back towards the hitter.

    Sure folks try to replicate these pitches, Kevin Gross, Don Sutton, Joe Niekro to name a few. But it gets harder and harder with all the new balls in play, video and the gaggle of umps at each contest. So cheating becomes more of an inward journey, players try and beat the system physically with HGH and steroids, condemned by those who know and chasing the same golden ring that enchanted Russ Ford and Cy Felkenberg, financial success and baseball immortality.

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  3. #2
    Member 919191's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    That was interesting. I've never heard of Ford. Thanks.
    I've been to dinner at Jimmy Buffet's house, and I've eaten it at a homeless shelter. And there's great joy and harrowing terror to be found in both places.
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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Great stuff, woy.

    Some people refuse to believe, others simply do not want to admit it, but cheating has been a fabric of baseball since its inception in the 19th century.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

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    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Another good posting, WOY.

    For me, the art of cheating has always been part of baseball's charm...until the drugs.

    There were grounds keepers at Shibe Park conturing the third baseline for Richie Ashburn bunts. Also, the Giants watering the ground around firstbase to slow down Maury Wills. The Cubs let the grass grow ankle high to allow an aging Larry Bowa play shortstop.

    The New York Giants credit there 1951 come from behind pennant to a scout stealing signs from the grandstand. The White Sox used the "0" in Sherm Lollar's number 10 on the scoreboard to relay stolen signs.

    I remember myself and a teammate practicing our timing on the "neighborhood play" at second base.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    For me, the art of cheating has always been part of baseball's charm...until the drugs.
    I'm curious. Why? The legality issues surrounding steroids? The health risks? The "everybody else is doing it" nature of institutional cheating? I find that an interesting position.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I'm curious. Why? The legality issues surrounding steroids? The health risks? The "everybody else is doing it" nature of institutional cheating? I find that an interesting position.
    Steroids and other drugs are an extremely dangerous and unnatural way to achieve an edge in any sport. It is not the same as scuffing a ball, sculpting the infield, or applying a phantom tag to a runner.

    I guess I really don't understand your position. Do your questions imply your accetance of the practice?
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    Steroids and other drugs are an extremely dangerous and unnatural way to achieve an edge in any sport. It is not the same as scuffing a ball, sculpting the infield, or applying a phantom tag to a runner.

    I guess I really don't understand your position. Do your questions imply your acceptance of the practice?
    No, I don't condone cheating in any form and would prefer that nobody cheated in any form.

    While I think it's stupid that anybody would risk their health for such marginal gains, I just don't see the moral difference in finding a way to build muscle better so you can hit the ball further and corking your bat, so you can hit the ball further. Cheating is cheating, no?

    To take it further, if taking steroids is the worst form of cheating, then what about Lasik eye surgery or cortisone shots? Are those natural?

    There seems to be two basic groups of activities: ones that affect the player and one which affect the implements of the game. Are the former worse than the latter due to some structural difference? If steroids were "healthy", would they still be so horrible?

    Steroid use is sad and should be strongly discouraged because of the precedent it sets which would encourage others to risk bodily harm for their success. But I think it's a much much grayer conversation than the one that's being held in the media.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    No, I don't condone cheating in any form and would prefer that nobody cheated in any form.

    While I think it's stupid that anybody would risk their health for such marginal gains, I just don't see the moral difference in finding a way to build muscle better so you can hit the ball further and corking your bat, so you can hit the ball further. Cheating is cheating, no?

    To take it further, if taking steroids is the worst form of cheating, then what about Lasik eye surgery or cortisone shots? Are those natural?

    There seems to be two basic groups of activities: ones that affect the player and one which affect the implements of the game. Are the former worse than the latter due to some structural difference? If steroids were "healthy", would they still be so horrible?

    Steroid use is sad and should be strongly discouraged because of the precedent it sets which would encourage others to risk bodily harm for their success. But I think it's a much much grayer conversation than the one that's being held in the media.
    I agree and disagree. Scuffing a ball doesn't encourage kids to go out and try just about any performance enhancer they can get their hands on just to keep up with the big boys. If Barry Bonds can afford to use that stuff safely with the help of Victor Conte, Greg Anderson, and doctors and nutritionists, then what are those kids who feel they need to use to keep up with the stars going to do? They can't afford the good stuff and the professional trainers and doctors that a Barry Bonds can. They have to resort to whatever junk they can find on the street or in the local gym. I could care less what Barry Bonds does to himself. I'm more concern about what pressures Barry Bonds puts on high school and college kids who are trying to break into the game. I don't think that's a gray issue at all. The media makes it gray because it whines about meaningless records.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

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    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    No, I don't condone cheating in any form and would prefer that nobody cheated in any form.

    While I think it's stupid that anybody would risk their health for such marginal gains, I just don't see the moral difference in finding a way to build muscle better so you can hit the ball further and corking your bat, so you can hit the ball further. Cheating is cheating, no?

    To take it further, if taking steroids is the worst form of cheating, then what about Lasik eye surgery or cortisone shots? Are those natural?

    There seems to be two basic groups of activities: ones that affect the player and one which affect the implements of the game. Are the former worse than the latter due to some structural difference? If steroids were "healthy", would they still be so horrible?

    Steroid use is sad and should be strongly discouraged because of the precedent it sets which would encourage others to risk bodily harm for their success. But I think it's a much much grayer conversation than the one that's being held in the media.
    The possession or sale of anabolic steroids without a valid prescription is illegal under the Federal Controlled Substance Act of 1991. Simple possession of illicitly obtained anabolic steroids carries a maximum penalty of one year in prison and a minimum $1,000 fine for a first time offense. For trafficking, it is five years in prison and a fine of $250,000 for a first felony drug offense. If this is the second felony drug offense, the maximum period of imprisonment and the maximum fine both double.

    If steroids were neither dangerous nor illegal, they would be okay in my opinion, but they are dangerous and illegal. However, players can and do use many legal and safe muscle building supplements as well as personal trainers to build muscle.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

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    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    No, I don't condone cheating in any form and would prefer that nobody cheated in any form.

    While I think it's stupid that anybody would risk their health for such marginal gains, I just don't see the moral difference in finding a way to build muscle better so you can hit the ball further and corking your bat, so you can hit the ball further. Cheating is cheating, no?

    To take it further, if taking steroids is the worst form of cheating, then what about Lasik eye surgery or cortisone shots? Are those natural?

    There seems to be two basic groups of activities: ones that affect the player and one which affect the implements of the game. Are the former worse than the latter due to some structural difference? If steroids were "healthy", would they still be so horrible?

    Steroid use is sad and should be strongly discouraged because of the precedent it sets which would encourage others to risk bodily harm for their success. But I think it's a much much grayer conversation than the one that's being held in the media.
    For me, the health aspect is a huge aspect of steroids and the one aspect of them that is actually overlooked in the public outcry about them. No, there's not a moral difference between steroids and other forms of cheating, but there is a physical one. And sports are first and foremost a physical endeavor, not a moral one. Sports exist to encourage people to stay in good physical shape and support "healthy" competition. Steroids are directly antithetical to both those things. And so for me it completely takes away the correct message of what sports are supposed to be for those just learning the definition.

    If steroids were proven to be healthy, or if certain steroids were solely beneficial or at least solely medicinal -- with benefits that outweigh brief side effects, like some other things you mention -- then yes, I would feel differently about them. Then no player would have to make the choice between his body and his game.

    edit: I should point out that by the health aspects of steroids being "overlooked", I mean that they've been buried in the rampant public moral outcry. I still do believe that steroids' negative health effects are at the bottom of the debate regardless. If steroids were good for you, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. They'd be legal and we'd cheer and yawn at the records being broken every year.
    Last edited by vaticanplum; 11-19-2007 at 09:31 PM.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  12. #11
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Great story, woy. Thanks!
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  13. #12
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    The possession or sale of anabolic steroids without a valid prescription is illegal under the Federal Controlled Substance Act of 1991. Simple possession of illicitly obtained anabolic steroids carries a maximum penalty of one year in prison and a minimum $1,000 fine for a first time offense. For trafficking, it is five years in prison and a fine of $250,000 for a first felony drug offense. If this is the second felony drug offense, the maximum period of imprisonment and the maximum fine both double.

    If steroids were neither dangerous nor illegal, they would be okay in my opinion, but they are dangerous and illegal. However, players can and do use many legal and safe muscle building supplements as well as personal trainers to build muscle.
    The Controlled Substances Act was enacted in 1970, not 1991, and it also includes Amphetamines, which are a Scheduled II drug and actually considered worse than anabolic steroids.

    The drug cheating world of baseball players isn't merely relegated to the past 15 or so years. In fact, it's not only possible, but actually probable that one (or more?) of the Big Red Machine violated the Controlled Substances Act (Pete Rose, step on down).
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

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  14. #13
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    For me, the health aspect is a huge aspect of steroids and the one aspect of them that is actually overlooked in the public outcry about them. No, there's not a moral difference between steroids and other forms of cheating, but there is a physical one. And sports are first and foremost a physical endeavor, not a moral one. Sports exist to encourage people to stay in good physical shape and support "healthy" competition. Steroids are directly antithetical to both those things. And so for me it completely takes away the correct message of what sports are supposed to be for those just learning the definition.

    If steroids were proven to be healthy, or if certain steroids were solely beneficial or at least solely medicinal -- with benefits that outweigh brief side effects, like some other things you mention -- then yes, I would feel differently about them. Then no player would have to make the choice between his body and his game.

    edit: I should point out that by the health aspects of steroids being "overlooked", I mean that they've been buried in the rampant public moral outcry. I still do believe that steroids' negative health effects are at the bottom of the debate regardless. If steroids were good for you, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. They'd be legal and we'd cheer and yawn at the records being broken every year.

    But that's the problem. These guys aren't taking them because they are bad for them. No one's going to intentionally take something that's bad for them. No one's going to intentionally take rat poison unless they want to die. However, people will take something that may have bad side effects if it will do them some short term good. Steroids are a perfect example. They are taking these because they may be beneficial in the short term. Otherwise they wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Adding muscle mass is a good thing if it's done naturally. If Bonds, et. al. had got their builds from weightlifting and good nutrition, it wouldn't be a bad thing. It's not the muscle mass that they are gaining that is the problem, it's the way they are going about it.
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  15. #14
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    But that's the problem. These guys aren't taking them because they are bad for them. No one's going to intentionally take something that's bad for them. No one's going to intentionally take rat poison unless they want to die. However, people will take something that may have bad side effects if it will do them some short term good. Steroids are a perfect example. They are taking these because they may be beneficial in the short term. Otherwise they wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Adding muscle mass is a good thing if it's done naturally. If Bonds, et. al. had got their builds from weightlifting and good nutrition, it wouldn't be a bad thing. It's not the muscle mass that they are gaining that is the problem, it's the way they are going about it.
    I'm not condoning steroids. I'm saying that it is the damage they cause to health that gives me concern, not the distortion in the game. ie. it's not a moral argument for me, it's a physical one (or at least, the physical argument has an arguable, quantifiable component).

    Obviously they cause some short term "good" in the athletes' minds. No one is arguing that.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  16. #15
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Cheating - Looking for that Edge

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    I'm not condoning steroids. I'm saying that it is the damage they cause to health that gives me concern, not the distortion in the game. ie. it's not a moral argument for me, it's a physical one (or at least, the physical argument has an arguable, quantifiable component).

    Obviously they cause some short term "good" in the athletes' minds. No one is arguing that.

    I agree. Unfortunately most fans and the media are so shortsighted that they don't care as much about the negative health aspects of steroids as they do the ethical issues. But there is the point of view that says that if someone wants to take something that is bad for them, they deserve what they get. I don't think anyone wanted Ken Caminiti to die but I'm sure a lot of people didn't feel a lot of sympathy for him because he knew there was a chance something like that could happen. If the person taking steroids doesn't care what could happen to him, many people aren't going to care either.
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