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Thread: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

  1. #31
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Relief pitchers value is very little. I have noticed that in Cincinnat they tend to be overvalued simply becuase the Reds have a horrible bullpen. Relief pitchers are of some value, but nowhere near the value of a solid every day player who isn't even of the all star level.
    Doug, I assume your comment is limited to the world of scouting. Because in the real world of major league baseball, relievers, and particularly closers, are enormously important and, if good, have enormous value.

    Look at the Brewers last year. IMO, the success they had is heavily attributable to the 8th and 9th inning relievers they ran out there in almost every winning game.

    It's not as if the major leagues are overrun with great relievers so that each individual is of no importance. Many teams, like the Reds, have struggled to put together competent bullpens.

    I can understanding discounting the value of middle relievers who may be interchangeable. But late inning types, with power stuff, are just as important as any other position on a team, with the exception of top-of-the-rotation starting pitchers.

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  3. #32
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Q: Ed from NJ asks:
    How much did Drew Stubbs turf toe actually affect his production?

    A: J.J. Cooper: He gutted his way through the season, but it did have an impact, and it explains why he struggled to steal bases. I'll be very interested to see how he bounces back after offseason toe surgery.
    Looks like edabbs was trying to get to the bottom of this.

    He also gets a bit testy later:

    Q: Ed from NJ asks:
    How does Kyle from Middletown get 50 questions answered and I get zero? Mix it up JJ, mix it up.

    A: J.J. Cooper: I'm trying to mix it up, but Kyle asked a lot of good questions early. Don't worry, I'm working through as many questions as I can get to, even if I have a turkey I need to go brine.
    Last edited by TOBTTReds; 11-21-2007 at 04:58 PM.

  4. #33
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Doug, I assume your comment is limited to the world of scouting. Because in the real world of major league baseball, relievers, and particularly closers, are enormously important and, if good, have enormous value.
    Not really, its based on the fact that you can build a good bullpen for basically nothing but failed starting pitchers.

    Look at the Brewers last year. IMO, the success they had is heavily attributable to the 8th and 9th inning relievers they ran out there in almost every winning game.
    I think it had to do with guys like Fielder, Braun, Hardy, Gallardo and Sheets a whole lot more than it did two relievers.

    It's not as if the major leagues are overrun with great relievers so that each individual is of no importance. Many teams, like the Reds, have struggled to put together competent bullpens.
    Teams that fail to put together competent bullpens like the Reds do so becuase they choose the wrong players.

    I can understanding discounting the value of middle relievers who may be interchangeable. But late inning types, with power stuff, are just as important as any other position on a team, with the exception of top-of-the-rotation starting pitchers.
    I ranked Josh Roenicke as my #10 prospect becuase he can be a closer.... but unless a prospect is a potential closer, he is not a real prospect in my mind. I will disagree that a late inning type is as important as any starting position player on a team if that player is actually a positive contributor to the team. Sure if the guy is Juan Castro, but there are maybe 3 relief pitchers in baseball that were as valuable or more valuable to his team than a guy like Dunn or Griffey or Phillips, or alex Gonzalez for that matter was to the Reds.

  5. #34
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Well, as the voting continues and Roenicke and other relievers come up, I'm sure we can continue this debate because I think there is definite disagreement here. I think late inning relief is a make-or-break position and that the idea of relievers having limited value as prospects is, or should be, outdated. But you make some good points on the other side of the argument.

    As for relievers being failed starters, maybe in some cases. But on the other hand many starters wouldn't be particularly good late inning relievers. A certain temperment, dominant stuff, and avoiding walks is key for a late inning reliever -- not all starters (and certainly not all failed starters) have these characteristics.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-21-2007 at 05:05 PM.

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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Just don't get the love for Maloney.... unless he has his fastball in the 90s now, I don't get the love for him. A sinker ball guy who allows a ton more fly balls than ground balls just worries me.
    Well, he struck out 62 guys in 45 innings after he was traded to the Reds, including 23 in 17 innings at AAA. His GO/AO ratio was .9 last season, and 1.1 the season before. Anyway, if he strikes peoople out, that number won't be so important. The only down side to the guy's numbers is the HR total, which went up a lot after he became Reds property.

    His performance is good enough to be at least in the Top 10.

    Roenicke is the one that I don't understand. Unless he's absolutely incredible, which I guess could be true, I don't think a reliever should be a top 10 prospect. I might have taken any number of guys ahead of him.
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    BA says Maloney throws in the 87-91 mph range.

    I'm glad BA gave Roenicke the respect he deserves by placing him in the top ten.

  8. #37
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    BA says Maloney throws in the 87-91 mph range.

    I'm glad BA gave Roenicke the respect he deserves by placing him in the top ten.
    If he is throwing in the 90s now, even the low 90s then I feel quite differently than before. Last year his scouting report had him topping out around 88 and thats just not good enough to cut it.

  9. #38
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    As for relievers being failed starters, maybe in some cases. But on the other hand many starters wouldn't be particularly good late inning relievers. A certain temperment, dominant stuff, and avoiding walks is key for a late inning reliever -- not all starters (and certainly not all failed starters) have these characteristics.
    Surely, but pitchers with good fastballs and little else that were once starters can generally become very good relievers becuase out of the pen they can add 2-4 mph on their fastball because they don't have to hold anything back and mixing in a breaking ball every now and again works a lot better when you only see a guy a few times a year rather than a few times a game. Obviously taking someone like Kirk Saarloos isn't ideal, but there are tons of guys in every system with 92-94 MPH fastballs that have nothing else than have the potential to be good relievers one day who are not good starters.

  10. #39
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Interesting tidbit from Cueto's profile.

    The Future: The Reds plan on acquiring a veteran starter this offseason, which would leave Cueto without a clear spot in the rotation. He could bide his time waiting for an opening by helping out the Cincinnati bullpen or getting more Triple-A seasoning.
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  11. #40
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Well, he struck out 62 guys in 45 innings after he was traded to the Reds, including 23 in 17 innings at AAA. His GO/AO ratio was .9 last season, and 1.1 the season before. Anyway, if he strikes peoople out, that number won't be so important. The only down side to the guy's numbers is the HR total, which went up a lot after he became Reds property.
    I don't put much stock into ground out and air out ratio, becuase those are just balls turned into outs. This season he allowed 58% of the balls in play in the air.

    His performance is good enough to be at least in the Top 10.

    Roenicke is the one that I don't understand. Unless he's absolutely incredible, which I guess could be true, I don't think a reliever should be a top 10 prospect. I might have taken any number of guys ahead of him.
    Well given his added velocity on his fastball I would rank Maloney quite a bit higher than I orginally had him.

    Roenicke though has the potential to be a closer at the major league level.

  12. #41
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You have to have a subscription to do so, so I am not sure there are a ton of guys on here that could do that. I wish they had smaller subscriptions available to purchase.
    They have a six month subscription. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/subscribe/404.html
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  13. #42
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    Looks like edabbs was trying to get to the bottom of this.
    That question was actually fed to me from Doug. Good question, I bet Doug's gonna flag that now whenever someone (like me) scoffs at the toe thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    He also gets a bit testy later:
    Hell yeah. I pumped in about 10 questions before the chat was up and this guy Kyle was getting question after question answered. I totally didn't expect him to post it, I just wanted to get his attention.

  14. #43
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by BoydsOfSummer View Post
    Yeah.... $45 is a lot right now. If they had like a 3 month thing for like $25 I would be much more interested, but I plan on getting the prospect handbook so dropping $45 right now for information that I will be buying later in the year just to get it a little early doesn't seem to work for me right now. I think BA has stuff worth reading, but most of it comes between October and February and the stuff in between is usually information you can find elsewhere. Maybe I am just too tight with my money?

  15. #44
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    That question was actually fed to me from Doug. Good question, I bet Doug's gonna flag that now whenever someone (like me) scoffs at the toe thing.
    Nah, I knew it was causing some issues early in the season. If others don't want to take it as a reason for some struggles, thats fine.... I just disagree with it thats all.

  16. #45
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    Re: BA Reds Top 10 Prospects

    Q: BT from Florida asks:
    How close was Kyle Lotzkar to making the list? What do you see as his future roll and where will he most likely play next year?
    A:

    J.J. Cooper: Lotzkar had a great debut and likely will be in the Top 10 next year. Leaving him off is just a matter of wanting to see a youngster in the GCL prove it over a longer stretch before rushing him into the Top 10. If this had been the list heading into the 2006 season he could have ranked as high as No. 3, but the system is much deeper now than it was then.
    Yet Mesoraco is sixth?
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