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Thread: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

  1. #1
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    Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    could be very competitive in the future. If the purported trade of Delmon Young for Garza becomes official, the DRays could potentially have a SERIOUS core to build from:

    Consider a starting rotation of:

    1. Kazmir
    2. Shields
    3. Garza
    4. Jackson
    5. Price/Niemann

    With Al Reyes closing, and a lineup that includes

    Carl Crawford
    BJ Upton
    Carlos Pena
    Rocco Baldelli
    Akinori Iwamura

    Now, everyone knows they probably won't be able to keep these guys for very long, seeing as how they are almost financially insolvent. But consider for the moment, they could have a pretty good core to work with.
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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    They stil have too long of a way to go on the defensive side of the field, plus the bullpen IMO. They have some interesting arms, but the complete lack of defense may trump that.

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    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    That's as fine a 1-2-3 starters as there is in baseball based on youth and potential.

    ugh. To think the reds Gave up Harris to get Gil. Harris/Hamilton for Garza would be a similar deal.

    ugh ugh ugh.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    Does Rocco Baldelli count as help? I can see where he might, but I can also see where he might not.

    I've got to imagine the plan is to have someone other than Al Reyes closing too.

    I like the addition of Garza though.
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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    Honestly that would be a good deal for both teams dealing from an area of strength to address a weakness.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    That's as fine a 1-2-3 starters as there is in baseball based on youth and potential.

    ugh. To think the reds Gave up Harris to get Gil. Harris/Hamilton for Garza would be a similar deal.

    ugh ugh ugh.
    It's not like losing Harris held this transaction back. He's a utility player in the Jeff Keppinger mold. I just don't see the cry of agony over losing Harris. Definition of replaceable.

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    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    It's not like losing Harris held this transaction back. He's a utility player in the Jeff Keppinger mold. I just don't see the cry of agony over losing Harris. Definition of replaceable.
    The agony is there was no reason to lose him in the first place, and he had some value. Makes THE TRADE look all the worse, especially if he is part of a package to get Garza. A package the Reds could have done with Hamilton instead of Young.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    The agony is there was no reason to lose him in the first place, and he had some value. Makes THE TRADE look all the worse, especially if he is part of a package to get Garza. A package the Reds could have done with Hamilton instead of Young.
    Keppinger = Harris

    IE if the Twins had wanted Hamilton, we could have dumped Keppinger into the deal. They likely saw [rightly so] Young as the better option.

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  10. #9
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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    Three words: Boston. Red. Sox.

    Forget it. Unless you're the Red Sox or Yankees you stand absolutely no chance in that division.

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Keppinger = Harris

    IE if the Twins had wanted Hamilton, we could have dumped Keppinger into the deal. They likely saw [rightly so] Young as the better option.

    Exactly my point. Well said.

    Harris wasn't preventing a trade like this. Young has Guerrero talent, and fits the mold of a hitter the Twins look for. I don't think there's any question that they prefer Young.

    Harris just isn't very good. There are dozens of players that could have been thrown in that would have similar value. He makes a fine utility player (much like Kepp), but the inability to play SS effectively makes him a tweener (much like Kepp again).

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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Three words: Boston. Red. Sox.

    Forget it. Unless you're the Red Sox or Yankees you stand absolutely no chance in that division.
    I agree...and the fact the Red Sox and Yankees are in the same division makes the wild card all the more difficult. However, the Rays may make a spirited run sometime in the future.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    It's not like losing Harris held this transaction back. He's a utility player in the Jeff Keppinger mold. I just don't see the cry of agony over losing Harris. Definition of replaceable.
    I agree with your comment about the defense being their biggest glaring weakness though they've got some solutions that they think have ETA's in '08 (i.e. Longoria) and the swapping of Harris for Bartlett itself might represent a 2.win upgrade defensively for the Rays. Also while Young has the tools to become a very good defender, he currently isn't one and, well, Wily Mo had the tools to become a good defender too..

    The Rays bullpen looks to have Percival (according to rumor), Reyes, Rincon and Wheeler + whomever... Probably not the most awe-inspiring pen but those arms all have a K/9 between 8-10 so it's probably serviceable and we're not talking a commitments to overpay for 4-5 years..

    Concerning Harris, I think you're right again that he's basically a throw away. Really he was a much bigger part of Tampa's problem last season than he was a plus.

    As said earlier in this thread, this potential trade is one where both clubs help themselves by dealing from positions of strength. Personally I like Young's upside more than Garza's but I haven't really spent hours contemplating the choice.... Young could become an absolute stud player.
    Last edited by jojo; 11-28-2007 at 06:56 PM.
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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    Another thing about Harris is that he probably wouldn't even have had the opportunity to play for the Reds so he likely wouldn't have the value that he has now had the Reds kept him.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I agree with your comment about the defense being their biggest glaring weakness though they've got some solutions that they think have ETA's in '08 (i.e. Longoria) and the swapping of Harris for Bartlett itself might represent a 2.win upgrade defensively for the Rays. Also while Young has the tools to become a very good defender, he currently isn't one and, well, Wily Mo had the tools to become a good defender too..
    That's true. Bartlett isn't a bad pick-up. It's not like Harris was an offensive machine either, so picking up a solid defensive player at a key position when there are nothing but poor alternatives available (plus they will be expensive) is a solid move. He has some ability to find 1st base too, so he could become a pretty unheralded part of the deal.

    With the bullpen I like Wheeler the most of the bunch.

    In Reyes, you have a high K guy, but disturbing flyball numbers (and this isn't a new issue either).

    Rincon was a good set-up type before this season. I expect a reasonable bouncback from him.

    Percival was surprisingly effective last season, but I still have my doubts. He was on the decline before his re-emergence last season, so I'm not optimistic that he can be much more than middle innings material this season.

    Overall, I think you have a pen similar to the Reds, except instead of Cordero you have a guy like Wheeler. Plenty of guys to toss out in the middle innings, but not much I'd trust with a lead. It will surely be better than last season, when the likes of Glover and Stokes got plenty of innings, but it's still missing some true back-end guys at the end. They need most guys to bounce back to their previous form, and when that's the collective hope, things tend to unravel quickly.

  16. #15
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Don't look now, but the Devil Rays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    That's true. Bartlett isn't a bad pick-up. It's not like Harris was an offensive machine either, so picking up a solid defensive player at a key position when there are nothing but poor alternatives available (plus they will be expensive) is a solid move. He has some ability to find 1st base too, so he could become a pretty unheralded part of the deal.

    With the bullpen I like Wheeler the most of the bunch.

    In Reyes, you have a high K guy, but disturbing flyball numbers (and this isn't a new issue either).

    Rincon was a good set-up type before this season. I expect a reasonable bouncback from him.

    Percival was surprisingly effective last season, but I still have my doubts. He was on the decline before his re-emergence last season, so I'm not optimistic that he can be much more than middle innings material this season.

    Overall, I think you have a pen similar to the Reds, except instead of Cordero you have a guy like Wheeler. Plenty of guys to toss out in the middle innings, but not much I'd trust with a lead. It will surely be better than last season, when the likes of Glover and Stokes got plenty of innings, but it's still missing some true back-end guys at the end. They need most guys to bounce back to their previous form, and when that's the collective hope, things tend to unravel quickly.
    The thing about having a farm that is stocked with power arms is that it's a reasonable bet that they can provide bullpen help given only so many guys can be in the rotation. The Rays probably have 2-3 guys that could fit that bill in '08 (i.e. a guy like Niemann). Also if Jackson doesn't become trade bait, he's probably going to be pen bound too.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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