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Thread: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

  1. #451
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Here's one thing to at least worry about. If further improvements mean trading guys like Bruce, Hamilton, EE, Bailey, and Cueto then the window for winning could possibly shrink considerably. I think the Reds are hampered by a need to make sure their return is young and controlled which will mean more expensive.

    It's not crazy talk to suggest that Dunn isn't likely to be back after '08. If he has a solid year, he'll surely want to test free agency. If he has a 2006 type year, the Reds probably would invite him to test free agency. Jr will obviously be gone after '08. It might become a greater necessity to buy replacements and really that's not a strategy the Reds can sustain.
    Totally agreed about the tenuous sustainability of the whole enterprise.

    That's why I'd say Bruce needs to be untouchable. He and Phillips are probably the two key players on the squad moving forward, even if Dunn stays. Encarnacion, Hamilton and Votto make a nice supporting cast, but the Reds can part with one for the right arm.

    I'd deal one of Bailey or Cueto, not both. It's a little easier to move a pitching prospect for a present pitcher because now you've got the job filled. Maybe it becomes a hole a little sooner because the vet leaves, but then again maybe the kid never would have filled the hole in the first place.

    It's a balancing act. You can't keep everyone and realistically expect to win in 2008. You probably can't even keep everybody and realistically expect to win in the future. The future usually isn't perfect. At some point you have to add people and it can cost money and talent to do it. It's called a trade for a reason. A GM has to determine what he can afford to give up.

    That's where Krivsky's at right now. He got to land a starter. Really he needs to land two, but one can be a sleeper. He's got no choice. His job probably hinges on it. It can be done without completely spiking the future, even if it's not a simple procedure.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  3. #452
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    I would be willing to package Bailey and Hamilton for a Haren or a Bedard. Heck, I'd offer it to Minny for Santana first and see if they don't immediately shut us down before asking for more.

    But Bruce and Cueto I would hold unto like Paris Hilton to her parents credit cards.
    I would love for the Reds to offer Bailey, Wood, Stubbs, Roenicke and possibly even Frazier and Votto for Santana. Of course the deal would be contingent on Santana signing a long term deal with us, but I would offer up to those 6 prospects. We immediately turn 5 questions marks and Votto into a long term solution. Some would hate the move, b/c they'd think Wayne is giving away the future for Santana, but I would think everyone would agree that Santana immediately makes us better, which should be the unifying goal.

    Unfortunately, I just don't see the Reds thinking they could then afford Santana long term, which I think is honestly a decent subject to debate.

  4. #453
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    6 top 10 prospects for 1 year of Santana? Kill me now.

  5. #454
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    6 top 10 prospects for 1 year of Santana? Kill me now.
    Like I said in my post, I'd only do as much as the 6 for 1 if we got Santana signed long term, which wouldn't be an outrageous request.

    Votto would be the only sure thing we'd be giving up. Bailey is the next closest thing to a sure thing in that list. The rest? Big question marks. If we're not willing to move question marks for actual talent, then we will continue to live in the land of Peter Pan.

  6. #455
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    It's just painfully short sighted. Even the Yankees and Red Sox aren't even coming close to offering a package like that.

    You make that trade, and you are left with very, very little young players to come through to the majors. For a small market club to compete, you need an influx of young talent to come through the system so that you have affordable talent to complement the high priced guys.

    Sanatana sure would be nice, but if you get him, then you can't fit in guys like Phillips and Dunn down the road, and you have no assets to replace them. It makes the Reds a legit team for this year, but they are screwed after that.

  7. #456
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    I'd think the Reds would need to predicate a deal for Santana on signing him to an extension ... and it's hard to imagine the Reds have the scratch to do that.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  8. #457
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    It's just painfully short sighted. Even the Yankees and Red Sox aren't even coming close to offering a package like that.

    You make that trade, and you are left with very, very little young players to come through to the majors. For a small market club to compete, you need an influx of young talent to come through the system so that you have affordable talent to complement the high priced guys.

    Sanatana sure would be nice, but if you get him, then you can't fit in guys like Phillips and Dunn down the road, and you have no assets to replace them. It makes the Reds a legit team for this year, but they are screwed after that.
    If there's one thing the Reds have, it's depth of question marks. The Yankees and Red Sox don't have question marks. They have actual talent. Kennedy, Cano, Hughes, Chamberlin, Cabrera. Actual talent. Pedroia, Buchholz, Ellsbury. Actual talent. The only actual talent the Reds would be giving up is Joey Votto, and possibly Homer Bailey. The rest of my proposed list? Question mark after question mark after question mark.

    We make that trade and we're still left with Cueto and Maloney as arm prospects. We make that trade and we're still left with Jay Bruce as our OF heir apparent.

    Maybe I'm being too optimistic about the new ownership, but I really think we could finally shed this whole "small market" tag, and expand our market, expand our brand, and finally push the payroll consistently to the $100 million mark.

    Making that deal for Santana brings a new philosophy to Cincinnati.

  9. #458
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    Look, I don't see how the Reds can afford Santana in the first place unless they are dramatically changing direction.

    And quit makign Bailey out to be a useless pod. He has value. Lot's of it, even if you don't like him. I'm not sure how Cabrera and Hughes and Kennedy all have actual talent while Bailey is a question mark. They haven't proven a thing either.

    The Yanks and Sox have plenty of question marks, at least in the description you are using for basically all Reds prospects. They are all question marks. That doesn't mean you trade all of them for a quick fix that doesn't fit the budget.

  10. #459
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    Look, I don't see how the Reds can afford Santana in the first place unless they are dramatically changing direction.

    And quit makign Bailey out to be a useless pod. He has value. Lot's of it, even if you don't like him. I'm not sure how Cabrera and Hughes and Kennedy all have actual talent while Bailey is a question mark. They haven't proven a thing either.

    The Yanks and Sox have plenty of question marks, at least in the description you are using for basically all Reds prospects. They are all question marks. That doesn't mean you trade all of them for a quick fix that doesn't fit the budget.
    Cabrera, Hughes and Kennedy have performed better than Bailey at the MLB level. They've proven plenty. The only thing Homer Bailey's proven is that he was in over his head at the MLB level, that he needs a map to find the strike zone, and is in love with his fastball due to the fact the rest of his pitches have a hard time consistently finding the strike zone.

    The Reds need to dramatically change direction. The direction we've been going from 1999 to the present resembles something close to being up a creek without a paddle.

  11. #460
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    Cabrera struggled last season. His glove makes him a passable starting CF, but he certainly hasn't proved this at th major league level.

    Kennedy pitched in 3 games.

    And Hughes was meh in his first audition. Well ahead of Bailey? Of course. Proven plenty? Well he's proven that he can be a below average starter at the major league level. But that's about it.

    Yes, these guys are advanced, but these guys haven't proved they are legit major leaguers yet. Not by a long shot.

  12. #461
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns View Post
    C'mon.... Paris Hilton jokes, that's too easy.

    Just like Paris.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  13. #462
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    BA-ZING!

  14. #463
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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cordero a Red

    I know Soto pitched a whole lot more innings, but what might the Reds' mid 1980's have been like if they had traded him for a bevy of very good prospects after 1984 when he was still a big winner but his WHIP started to show a pattern of rising?

    I'd rather overpay in dollars than overpay in prospects.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton


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